Winter handling problems

[Tar]

Hi,
New member here and I'm hoping I can get some guidance.
This is the first winter in my 2003 P5. In Nov. got new All-season tires (Falken ZIEX -ZE912) or at least they claim to be All-season. I've learned thru experience and some forums that they are not the best for snow - no complaints on dry or wet roads tho.
Anyway, with even the slightest bit of frozen precip. (slush, snow, ice) and going over 40mph, the back end of the car is all over the place. Ive tried putting some weight in the back but that was little help. Not sure what else to do because I drive tons of highway miles and I would like much better handling in the slop. Are snow tires a must for this car or should I be looking at other potential problems? The car handles beautifully on dry & wet roads just frozen stuff makes it super loose.
Any advice is appreciated, lots of winter left here in Wisc.

 

[curls]

I am a VERY firm believer in dedicated winter tires.

No tire is "all-season" except a select few like the Nokian WR that still carry the severe winter rubber logo (mountain + snowflake).

I've used Falken Ziex's in the winter before and that lasted a whole 2 days before I got dedicated winters on my car (at the time, a 1991 Integra). Since then I run winter on both cars (2004 TSX, and wife's 2002 P5). Both cars can handle the deepest snow drifts, icy conditions, or freezing rain, with relative ease.

The best part is, they really don't cost anything in the long run, as you get almost double the mileage from your summer tires as they aren't being used for 1/3 of the year!

 

[njaremka]

Falken 912 are NOT all season tires. at best, i would say they are 2-season tires. (spring-fall) for summer duty, they are acaptable. not great, but acceptable. for winter duty, NOTHING will beat a decent set of winter tires. even a cheap set of winter tires will be WORLDS better than a good set of "All-Seasons".

 

[Mattygoogs84]

I had nokian i3 tires on my protege es and it was the worst car in the snow, ever it saw snow wasn't moving and some how still found a way to be all over the place lol. I got a set of cooper all season tires lifelines i think they are. on a set of rims a guy sold me. They are all season tires, but have a tread pattern that just looks like it was designed to eat snow. I'm sure winter tires would probably do even better but these tires made a world of difference, it has alot to do with tread design as well m,y nokians are design to hug corners and get rid of water fast so they have a lot of straight lines while the cooper tires are a blocky type of tread which again makes a huge difference...

 

[P5Rydah]

i got the same problem. toyo proxys are horrible in snow. i don't even drive mine in the snow unless i absolutely have to. we also have an awd mountaineer though

 

[justanothermp5]

toyo proxes are also performance summer tires, which could probably be one of the reasons they suck lol

and to the OP, dont try driving in snow unless u have snow tires, any other tires are designed for different climates and will not perform well at all in snow

 

[Magus]

I just replaced my worn-out Traction T/A's with the brand new replacement models:

Bf Goodrich g-Force Super Sport a/s

traction AA
temperature A
wear 460

I have driven these on snow covered roads, slush, poorly scrapped roads here in VA with our lovely snow storm. People in SUVs where driving slowly in the scrapped lane, and I was fly 60 mph on the snow covered center section. Now mine you, I was not driving through unplowed snow covered roads above 3 inches. Then again why would I do that with my FWD low riding car? My feeling is, that if you need a winter tire versus these, you should also have something with clearance and AWD/4WD.

I have had nothing be awesome cornering, traction, performance in dry/wet with my old tires that made me wonder what the point of summer tires were. I would only do a summer / winter combo if I was driving something with awd like an Evo or Subaru WRX.


If you were having problems, it could be that your rear tires do not have as much tread as the fronts and you are having traction issues because of this. It could be your tire psi is too low. Or it could just be the tires suck.

 

[wildo]

I am a VERY firm believer in dedicated winter tires.

No tire is "all-season" except a select few like the Nokian WR that still carry the severe winter rubber logo (mountain + snowflake).

I've used Falken Ziex's in the winter before and that lasted a whole 2 days before I got dedicated winters on my car (at the time, a 1991 Integra). Since then I run winter on both cars (2004 TSX, and wife's 2002 P5). Both cars can handle the deepest snow drifts, icy conditions, or freezing rain, with relative ease.

The best part is, they really don't cost anything in the long run, as you get almost double the mileage from your summer tires as they aren't being used for 1/3 of the year!

I've used both Toro Proxy 4's and Kumho Ectsa's for winter seasons. They've both sucked for all but the lightest of snow. Just recently (2 weeks ago) I finally bought some Bridgestone Blizzak WS-60's- a purpose made snow tire. I can't even describe how happy I am with them! So I am also now a firm believer in this. I'm trucking through 5" of snow (with 3.5" - 4" of clearance) no problems. (I know- not very smart- but I was testing the new snow tires.)

Definitely try getting a set of snow tires if you can swing it... I'm going places some SUVs are not able to get through. These things are really, really good!

 

[MaxPower]

Agree with the general sentiment... if the cost of snow tires/wheels is a concern you can usually find good deals used on craigslist.

 

[Magus]

True the snow tires will take you places that my tires might not, but then can you get out if you get stuck? That is my concern with snow tires and 1 wheel drive

I will second the nomination for Bridgestone Blizzak WS-60, they appear to be the end all be all of snow tires. Hey wildo, what size tires are you running?

 

[justanothermp5]

and I was fly 60 mph on the snow covered center section.

this is how people total there cars and how others get hurt..

 

[bafilio1]

hmmm I don't know what you guys are talking about lol... My p5 does so much better in the snow then my grandam GT

Grandam GT tires: Bridgestone Potenzas 215/50/16 roughly 6k miles on them
Protege5 tires: Eagle F1 GSD3 205/40/z17 roughly 2k miles
lol I barely spin the tires on the p5... but I keep slidding off the road in the grand am I hit two gaurdrails, 1 center divider and slid into a 10ft ditch two days ago in the grandam.

**edit.. I forgot to mention that this is with the current 9" of snow on my sheet un plowed and my unplowed driveway lol the streets vary**

 

[wildo]

True the snow tires will take you places that my tires might not, but then can you get out if you get stuck? That is my concern with snow tires and 1 wheel drive

I will second the nomination for Bridgestone Blizzak WS-60, they appear to be the end all be all of snow tires. Hey wildo, what size tires are you running?

205/50/16

Your concern is kinda silly. Why would you be concerned about getting somewhere and then getting stuck with snow tires- when you would have been stuck WAY prior to that point in non-snow tires? Sorry- I don't follow that logic...

 

[wildo]

toyo proxes are also performance summer tires, which could probably be one of the reasons they suck lol

and to the OP, dont try driving in snow unless u have snow tires, any other tires are designed for different climates and will not perform well at all in snow

I said I had proxes 4's...

http://toyotires.com/tire/pattern/proxes-4
"The Proxes 4 is an all-season, M&S rated, ultra-high performance tire designed primarily for plus-fitment applications on sport compact cars, sports sedans, and coupes. "

 

[Magus]

Trust me justanothermp5, I only drive with the limits of my traction. I have driven in the Mountains of West Virginia when I went to college, and very familiar with real winter driving! Driving on a 3 lane highway with people only using 1 lane that is uncovered, it being flat as a pancake, and driving 35 mph in a 55? I will take the snow covered two lanes any day. I only drive as fast as I feel comfortable that I can change lanes and brake comfortably. If there is having major slippage or turns, you of course do not drive that fast. Is everyone driving an experienced driver like me? No, but tires also play a big part. I have driven this car many times on snow without people on the road to understand how my car handles in the snow, slippage conditions, and how to recover.

Driving slow in snow gets you stuck, driving fast on ice is crazy.

 

[Magus]

Very easy logic, well maybe.....

If you have awesome snow tires, some people might attempt to drive through snow that is deeper than they should (4+ inches). If you do not know the true depth in some areas, or hidden curbs could get you stuck. If you were in a vehicle with 4WD, or good AWD, you could put in reverse and get out. If your in FWD and can not get traction you are stuck because you usually got head first into a problem. In your case you were in an area you knew well and it was no big deal (awesome time to test the tires). I am not down playing snow tires and their function, but I have yet to need snow tires. If I had summer tires, I would require winter tires if I was keeping the summer. If I get to a point where I need better tires, I will need better traction. I have seriously been considering my wife's replacement car (94 ford escort), and was thinking legacy gt or fusion AWD.

I would also point out that the tire might be designed for mud and snow, but I am not sure about the tire pattern. Compare that to the following:

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=BFGoodrich&tireModel=g-Force+Super+Sport+A/S+H&V

I am not sure at the moment about the Toyo's, but the current tire I am working with has three different tire compounds in one tire. One for wet (the center rib), two for Snow (the ones in outside the center rib), and two for dry (outer ribs). Again, this makes a big difference versus using a tire that has only one compound. The other difference is these tires side walls are steel rib and do no flex.

Though since you have the winter tires, you will save on wear and tear on both sets.

 

[wildo]

Very easy logic, well maybe.....

If you have awesome snow tires, some people might attempt to drive through snow that is deeper than they should (4+ inches). If you do not know the true depth in some areas, or hidden curbs could get you stuck.

Can't think of to many depth changes, or curbs on the road...

To each their own opinion, though.

 

[njaremka]

I just replaced my worn-out Traction T/A's with the brand new replacement models:

Bf Goodrich g-Force Super Sport a/s

traction AA
temperature A
wear 460

I have driven these on snow covered roads, slush, poorly scrapped roads here in VA with our lovely snow storm. People in SUVs where driving slowly in the scrapped lane, and I was fly 60 mph on the snow covered center section. Now mine you, I was not driving through unplowed snow covered roads above 3 inches. Then again why would I do that with my FWD low riding car? My feeling is, that if you need a winter tire versus these, you should also have something with clearance and AWD/4WD.

I have had nothing be awesome cornering, traction, performance in dry/wet with my old tires that made me wonder what the point of summer tires were. I would only do a summer / winter combo if I was driving something with awd like an Evo or Subaru WRX.


If you were having problems, it could be that your rear tires do not have as much tread as the fronts and you are having traction issues because of this. It could be your tire psi is too low. Or it could just be the tires suck.

i have driven around people in suck-uv's in my lowered fwd protege on winter tires. awd doesnt mean anything if you dont have proper tires. heck, fwd drive doesnt mean anything if you dont have proper tires. i have also plowed snow with my bumper in my fwd protege on winter tires. i have NEVER gotten stuck as long as i had winter tires on my protege. the only time i got stuck in the snow with my protege was when i delayed getting my winter tires mounted on the car, and we got 1/2" of snow. got to work fine inthe dry, then it snowed and i didnt even make it out of the parking lot.

 

[Tar]

OK --- thanks all.
It looks like snow tires are the way to go with this car.
I love the car but it's winter performance makes me long for my 98 saturn which ate the snow and slop up. It was a tank.

 

[winston3x]

Tar,
I think most people go with a separate 15in steel rim for a snow tire on the p5. maybe you can find a good wheel/tire set used.