How hard is it to get to VICS?

[pasadena_commut]

Correct.

The VTCS butterflies are at the edge of the manifold where it meets the head.

The VICS are inside the manifold which has to be taken apart into it's two halves to get to.

Ok, that's settled then.

As I understand it the VICS are normally closed and only open above a certain RPM in order to provide more air (or better intake tuning, or something like that.)

The VTCS on the other hand are open pretty much all the time except when the motor is cold when they change angle to cause turbulence in the flow which somehow or other results in the engine running cleaner, resulting in the ULEV designation. (Do the VTCS valves ever close all the way?) When the motor is warmed up the VTCS valves open as much as possible. So removing the VTCS, which it seems a lot of people have done, gives a little more power most of the time at the expense of increased emissions from the few minutes when the engine is really cold. The thing that strikes me as odd is that at the same time the car is playing with the VTCS valves it's also making the fuel mixture richer, apparently to heat up the catalytic converter faster. (I don't recall where I read that.) My car warms up pretty quickly, it only takes a minute or two for the T gauge to get near the middle of the range. Does anybody know exactly how much of a difference the presence of the VTCS actually makes in the emissions? Just to play devil's advocate, are the emissions when the car is warm lower, higher, or the same plus/minus the VTCS? Because it seems if the flow is a little better without the VTCS the motor might run slightly cleaner, and if emissions at normal temps were at all lower with the VTCS then the net emissions would depend on the ratio of run time warm vs cold.

 

[peepsalot]

The VTCS does close all the way when it is activated. However, the VTCS vanes have a smaller oblong shape cutout of the top of them, so that when they are closed "all the way" there is still a 1/4 or so of the entire runner area open for airflow. It's not the best pic to demonstrate, but you can kinda see this in blynd_spy's 4th pic. As far as emissions go, I don't think anyone could say for sure without doing a before/after sniffer test.

 

[apocman]

I just took my VTCS completely out and just left the rail the flaps were connected to in. I will go back later and do the removal of the bar and port and polish it with the how-to on here at a later time.

 

[blynd_spy]

I just took my VTCS completely out and just left the rail the flaps were connected to in. I will go back later and do the removal of the bar and port and polish it with the how-to on here at a later time.

so you are saying you removed your IM to just remove the butterflies?? Why didnt you just at least remove the bar at the same time? With the bar there it still disrupts the airflow, just sorta seems like it would ne a waste of time..

 

[Johnnybass]

so you are saying you removed your IM to just remove the butterflies?? Why didnt you just at least remove the bar at the same time? With the bar there it still disrupts the airflow, just sorta seems like it would ne a waste of time..

right??? now you'll have to do it all again just to get to the same part...oh well (cheers)

 

[pasadena_commut]

Returning to the original question for a minute...

1. Is there a way to check the VICS screws other than by removing the intake manifold? For instance, threading a tool like a colonoscope in through the throttle body after removing just part of the air intake?

There was one response that this wasn't possible. We've established that the VICS valves live in the middle of the intake manifold and that the screws go all the way through the valves. So if the throttle body was removed what exactly is preventing the threading some sort of scope in through the hole to see at least one side of the VICS valves? From either side one should be able to determine if the screws are in all the way. Are there baffles or U turns or some other odd structures in the way in the half of the manifold between the throttle body hole and the VICS valves?

At some point while taking off the intake manifold all the bolts will have been removed. If the manifold isn't supported at that point does it fall onto whatever is beneath it in the engine compartment or is it supported by something that it isn't bolted to? I'm only 5'8" and it already looks like I'd nearly have to crawl in there with it to reach some of the bolts. What does the manifold weigh? Given the its position it looks like it's going to be one really awkward lift to get it out. Would it help to take the hood off first?

 

[peepsalot]

When removing the manifold, you will remove nuts from studs that are embedded in the head. After the nuts are off, the manifold will still be resting on the studs. You will have to pick it up and slide it off of these before it has any chance of falling.

As far as the colonoscope goes, there are no special baffles in the way, but I'm having a hard time visualizing and remembering if there are some tricky turns on the path from the throttle body to VICS. Also, you can manually move the arm of the actuator from the outside of the manifold to get a better look at both sides of the flaps(assuming you already have your colonoscope in place). I don't really know what you are expecting to see though.

I'm not good at guessing weight, but the manifold weighs no more than 20lbs. Taking the hood off is not necessary. I pulled the manifold off on my own after a little effort, I'm not particularly strong, and was already exhausted at that point. The only thing making it difficult was some hoses and things in the way that it kept catching on.

 

[apocman]

ok just found out that the guy who took out my VTCS also removed my VICS!!!! I'm so pissed off!!!! My ******* car is so ******* slow becuase of this !!!!!

Lucky I have an extra MSP intake !!!!

DO NOT REMOVE YOUR VICS, UNLESS YOU WANT TO BE AS SLOW AS A ******* TURTLE ON SLEEPING PILLS!!!!!

 

[apocman]

a friend did it for me and then told me later he did it, but he took out my VICS and he didn't tell me so I was going crazy trying to figure out why my car was so slow until he told me...

so you are saying you removed your IM to just remove the butterflies?? Why didnt you just at least remove the bar at the same time? With the bar there it still disrupts the airflow, just sorta seems like it would ne a waste of time..

 

[pasadena_commut]

Having all the proper extensions is key for getting to all 7 bolts that hold the face of the manifold on. And when putting it back on, you gotta be careful not to overtorque the bolts, only 12-14ft-lbs IIRC.

I have a 3" and 10" extension. What else is included in "all the proper extensions"?

My tools include your basic low end socket set with metric and nonmetric sockets and a 7" ratchet. So far it has had a socket to match every bolt on the P5. I also have a "click type" 0-80 ft-lb torque wrench.

Are deep sockets needed?

 

[peepsalot]

The nsn tutorial gives a good list of tools you will probably need.
http://www.nsnmotorsports.com/docs/thermalinstall.htm
discussion here:
http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123615890&highlight=manifold

And then there is this that I used in conjuntion with the nsn instructions:
http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1238567&postcount=69
from here:
http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?t=81080

And more info here
http://flatblack.somethingsomething.org/p5/porting/
discussion here:
http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?t=82884

 

[blynd_spy]

There was one response that this wasn't possible. We've established that the VICS valves live in the middle of the intake manifold and that the screws go all the way through the valves. So if the throttle body was removed what exactly is preventing the threading some sort of scope in through the hole to see at least one side of the VICS valves? From either side one should be able to determine if the screws are in all the way. Are there baffles or U turns or some other odd structures in the way in the half of the manifold between the throttle body hole and the VICS valves?
As far as the colonoscope goes, there are no special baffles in the way, but I'm having a hard time visualizing and remembering if there are some tricky turns on the path from the throttle body to VICS. Also, you can manually move the arm of the actuator from the outside of the manifold to get a better look at both sides of the flaps(assuming you already have your colonoscope in place). I don't really know what you are expecting to see though.

Here is pic of the bottom half of the IM. The throttle body is on the right. The bottom cavern (highlighted blue) Is connected to the runners on top (also blue) and is totally seperate from the cavern with the VICS (highlighted red)

So yeah pasadena, colonoscope would have to go through the throttle body, top runners, and then bend 180 to see the BOTTOM of the flaps, side with no screws heads showing.
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