Volkswagen Ordered To Recall 500K Vehicles Over Its Own Malicious Programming

Wired: VW Owners Arent Going to Like the Fixes for Their Diesels

Slap on the Urea Tank
VWs unlikely to embrace that option, because adding hardware to half a million cars would be far more expensive than a computer update. It wouldnt be any fun for the TDI owner, either. Not only do you have to spend an afternoon with your local dealer, you have to make room for the tank. That could mean sacrificing cargo space or giving up the spare tire.

Dodge the Recall
Its not crazy to think state agencies or NHTSA would flag them, and refuse to issue a new registration, or let them pass a smog test, unless proof of a fix is offered. It should be fairly easy to police, says Matt DeLorenzo, managing editor of news at Kelley Blue Book.


Replacing the spare tire with urea hardware might make the most sense if just doing a software update results in decreased mileage and then massive lawsuits that follow. There's the long term cost of lost customers that would follow the loss of performance as well. Whatever they choose, it will be expensive.
 
CEO of VW resigned, been in that position since 2007.
 
I do have empathy for those who purchased these vehicles under the false sales pretenses established by VW. I have several co-workers who purchased for the clean and high MPG and they are pissed like I assume many others are.

IMO: If Mazda was as corrupt as VW the SkyActiv diesel would already be here.... Mazda played by the rules of law and that engine isn't available in NA. I have lots of respect for that.... VW... I have no respect for at this point.
 
^ Agreed, and I'm not expecting diesel CX-5 to come US.
 
^ Agreed, and I'm not expecting diesel CX-5 to come US.

I don't really understand the rationale. Skyactiv-D is Euro 6 emmisions compliant (assuming Mazda doesn't cheat). Does anyone know if US EPA standards are even more stringent than the latest Euro 6 standard ?
 
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I don't really understand the rationale. Skyactiv-D is Euro 6 emmisions compliant (assuming Mazda doesn't cheat). Does anyone if US EPA standards are even more stringent than the latest Euro 6 standard ?

In some ways the EPA standards are more restrictive, other ways more lenient.

One of the big problems is that the US ultra low sulfur diesel has a lot more sulfur than the Euro diesel (thanks to big $$ lobbying by big oil).
 
I do have empathy for those who purchased these vehicles under the false sales pretenses established by VW. I have several co-workers who purchased for the clean and high MPG and they are pissed like I assume many others are.
I wouldn't assume that. Happy TDI owner here (if that wasn't already obvious). The funny thing is the cars were never touted as being any cleaner than any other IC vehicle out there. "Clean diesel" is (was) just a moniker like "SkyActiv." It just happens that VW played the system and actual emissions are higher. Who has "meets current emissions regulations" as a purchasing criteria when it's accepted that every new car meets them? The only vehicles that make those claims are those that are hybrid or full electric.

IMO: If Mazda was as corrupt as VW the SkyActiv diesel would already be here.... Mazda played by the rules of law and that engine isn't available in NA. I have lots of respect for that.... VW... I have no respect for at this point.
Careful... Mazda by no means has a spotless record. While they've never committed anything this egregious there are past examples of overstating emissions, horsepower/torque, and fuel economy. Don't let the facts that this is a Mazda forum and you're a Mazda owner lead to bias. They're all corporations and will look for any loophole or edge that leads to more revenue.
 
IMO... beginning of the end for this diesel era in automobiles. If big rigs make significant transition to natural gas & hybrid in years ahead it will just be another chapter in automobile history.
 
Dang I'd be pissed if I owned one of these cars that has bad emissions. What if they could be subject to an ecu reflash to fix.... Would probably mean less performance/power as a result. Shame on VW
 
How many deaths did Volkswagen's pollution scandal cause?

How many deaths did Volkswagen's pollution scandal cause?
http://www.vox.com/2015/9/23/9383641/volkswagen-scandal-pollution

Using these figures, the estimated extra pollution from Volkswagen's US cars could be expected to lead to an additional 2 to 22 premature deaths each year. If we extrapolated worldwide to all 11 million vehicles, that would come to somewhere between 34 and 313 premature deaths each year.
 
Dang I'd be pissed if I owned one of these cars that has bad emissions. What if they could be subject to an ecu reflash to fix.... Would probably mean less performance/power as a result. Shame on VW

edmunds just posted a really good/informative article about the two Passats they had in their longterm fleet (a 2013 TDI and 2014 TSI). Now granted, this is only one example, the TDI gas records came in higher than the EPA ratings (as expected), but real world life numbers may still be what the EPA window sticker advertises. You can read the article here:

http://www.edmunds.com/volkswagen/p...-on-future-emissions-recall-expectations.html
 
IMO... beginning of the end for this diesel era in automobiles. If big rigs make significant transition to natural gas & hybrid in years ahead it will just be another chapter in automobile history.
Eh, I doubt it. Unless serious advances are made I don't see semi's moving to LPG or LNG anytime soon. Hybrid freight vehicles are a long ways off with today's battery technology. Not to mention, what about marine and off-road (e.g. construction) equipment? There'll be a market for diesel engines for a while yet.

Dang I'd be pissed if I owned one of these cars that has bad emissions. What if they could be subject to an ecu reflash to fix.... Would probably mean less performance/power as a result. Shame on VW
I'm an owner and I'm not. It's already been discussed it will either be an ECM change (e.g. reflash) or a hardware change (e.g. exhaust treatment). The latter is by far the best option because it holds the only hope for maintaining the horsepower, torque, and fuel economy numbers. I'd like to think the clever German engineers could come up with a solution. Also, as previously discussed, if you live in an area without yearly safety inspections, or emissions testing (e.g. SW Ohio) there's nothing preventing owners from ignoring the recall altogether.
 
edmunds just posted a really good/informative article about the two Passats they had in their longterm fleet (a 2013 TDI and 2014 TSI). Now granted, this is only one example, the TDI gas records came in higher than the EPA ratings (as expected), but real world life numbers may still be what the EPA window sticker advertises. You can read the article here:

http://www.edmunds.com/volkswagen/p...-on-future-emissions-recall-expectations.html
This is very interesting information. Thanks for posting! For those who don't want to read it basically says EPA fuel economy estimates are back-calculation from emissions read during testing. Therefore, reason stands to believe the EPA-rated fuel economy for TDI-equipped cars is under-predicting in the real world. So if a purely electronic solution were pursued, owners would see a drop in fuel economy but it would be more in-line with the EPA estimates, and therefore, no ground for a lawsuit. I can personally attest to the the TDI-powered MkV Jetta consistently getting better than the EPA estimate.
 
Chicago Tribune article today quotes a dealer saying they were told software and hardware changes coming: http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-volkswagen-scandal-dealers-owners-20150924-story.html

Tom Backer, general manager of the dealership in New York's Westchester County.

Dealers, he said, were told that there will be both software and hardware changes to fix the problem. They're already on 2016 models and are awaiting approval from the Environmental Protection Agency, Backer said. Older models will get the same fixes, he said.


The 2015/2016 models have SCR/Urea treatment. They may not need to be recalled if VW proves they don't contain offending software. For older models, the question is where to put the tank? Maybe replace the spare tire with one of those sealant inflators and reclaim the space.
 
...as previously discussed, if you live in an area without yearly safety inspections, or emissions testing (e.g. SW Ohio) there's nothing preventing owners from ignoring the recall altogether.

I was reading an article that suggests some of the state regulatory agencies may use their authority and use extraordinary measures if the recall compliance rate is too low; something like denying vehicle registration. I'd not doubt the EPA could force something similar if they think it important.

Whether it's important enough turns as much on political and other pragmatic points as anything else.
 
Eh, I doubt it. Unless serious advances are made I don't see semi's moving to LPG or LNG anytime soon.

Serious advances? (rofl2) (rofl2)

Heavy trucking fleets are already moving to LPG due to the many practical advantages of it as a fuel:

http://www.autoblog.com/2013/03/21/us-truck-fleets-turning-towards-cng-lpg/

If you want to save hundreds of thousands of dollars, you can run your trucking fleet on LPG and buy your LPG trucks from Ford, GM or Chrysler. I drove LPG trucks in the 1970's and 1980's that had been converted from gas to LPG. The conversions were mostly for economic reasons but also because the fleet had to be able to perform in a winter alpine environment which can be problematic for diesels without plugging them in each night. LPG fires right up in the coldest environment and allows for greatly extended oil change intervals. The current offerings from Ford, GM and Chrysler are manufactured specifically for LPG. No "serious advances" needed. LPG also emits 20-30% fewer greenhouse gases.

You should check your facts before you make such silly statements.

Also, as previously discussed, if you live in an area without yearly safety inspections, or emissions testing (e.g. SW Ohio) there's nothing preventing owners from ignoring the recall altogether.

I doubt this. All but the most backward states will likely require proof of the upgrade to meet EPA standards before renewing license tabs on vehicles that don't currently meet emission standards. Sure, there's always a way around the regulations but it likely won't be as simple as "ignoring the recall altogether".
 
I was reading an article that suggests some of the state regulatory agencies may use their authority and use extraordinary measures if the recall compliance rate is too low; something like denying vehicle registration. I'd not doubt the EPA could force something similar if they think it important.

Whether it's important enough turns as much on political and other pragmatic points as anything else.
That's certainly possible. Perhaps that's what the $18+ billion in possible fines will go toward. I can see how tracking that with used/second hand cars would be difficult. Not to mention vehicles that have moved counties/states. If VW is going to handle the recall there are many questions that's need to be answered? How do you deal with people who've taken their cars to multiple dealerships, independent shops, or none at all. Will I get 4 recall notices because I've taken my car to four dealership services shops? Will I get none because I've never taken it to a service shop? What about people who've purchased cars from dealerships that no longer exist?

Serious advances?

Heavy trucking fleets are already moving to LPG due to the many practical advantages of it as a fuel:

http://www.autoblog.com/2013/03/21/u...wards-cng-lpg/

If you want to save hundreds of thousands of dollars, you can run your trucking fleet on LPG and buy your LPG trucks from Ford, GM or Chrysler. I drove LPG trucks in the 1970's and 1980's that had been converted from gas to LPG. The conversions were mostly for economic reasons but also because the fleet had to be able to perform in a winter alpine environment which can be problematic for diesels without plugging them in each night. LPG fires right up in the coldest environment and allows for greatly extended oil change intervals. The current offerings from Ford, GM and Chrysler are manufactured specifically for LPG. No "serious advances" needed. LPG also emits 20-30% fewer greenhouse gases.

You should check your facts before you make such silly statements.
And you should read the article you referenced and its sources before making claims about cost-savings. That "hundreds of thousands of dollars" quoted does not include the cost of purchasing CNG/LPG-run vehicles (more than diesel or gas vehicles) or upgrading current vehicles to run on CNG/LPG (a $10,000+ per vehicle fee). The fuel savings also assume a "diesel gallon equivalent" of LPG. Since LPG has a much lower energy density than diesel this means more fuel and larger fuel storage tanks, which means less storage space and/or more weight. This means less towing capacity and less profit per haul. Assuming a constant fuel volume any savings are severely impacted by the relative cost of LPG to diesel fuel, which right now, is not in CNG/LPG's favor.

I doubt this. All but the most backward states will likely require proof of the upgrade to meet EPA standards before renewing license tabs on vehicles that don't currently meet emission standards. Sure, there's always a way around the regulations but it likely won't be as simple as "ignoring the recall altogether".
I can cite many examples of states with counties that do not require yearly emissions or safety inspections. You get a statement in the mail every year saying "pay up or your registration will expire" and that's it. Few of these I'd consider to be "backward."
 
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