No New Mazda2 for the United States

[Font Motorsports]

Good, but disappointing info Jackman. We've had several members say the same thing you did after speaking to Mazda reps at car shows.

The new Mazda 2 is notches above the current one in every way possible. Engine, look, interior and tech. All better and more upscale. Yet they won't sell it here because the old one didn't sell well? How does that make sense? It's a completely new car!! Like you said, sell it in limited numbers. It's sold in Canada, Mexico and we can't get it in the US?

I knew the minute we saw Mazda premier the CX3 at LA and that the new 2 was no where in site. I knew the CX3 was taking it's place. The fact that Mazda appears to not want to compete with Ford, Mini and Fiat in this category is disappointing to say the least.

It's numbing ridiculous. It hurts my brain. "zoom zoom" my ass. You can bet your house there won't be a MAZDASPEED2. Not that it'll matter if they do make one, cuz we won't get it.

The thing is though, they don't need to sell that well. Just don't order as many of them, same as the Miata. This car is going to be built just over the border in Mexico anyway. It's going to meet North American safety standards anyway, because it's going to be sold in Canada. The cost of additional production for the US is as minimal as possible. It is simply insane to refuse to sell any amount of this car in the States. It's already here. Made on our southern border, sold on our northern border.

 

[Font Motorsports]

100% correct. There was ONE commercial for it in 2012 and that was it. Plus i only saw it once. Never saw it again. I can't even find it online. Mazda did a terrible, awful job promoting the Mazda 2 in the United States. We didn't even get the SkyActiv engine for freakin' sake!

I don't believe this nonsense i keep hearing about them not selling well in the US. I literally see a handful every single day in South Florida. I see them as much as i see Fiesta's, Mini's or Fiat's.

Watch, they'll see it 5 years after it's been out.

Of course the last gen Mazda2 didn't sell very well. The Mazda3 and Mazda6 both got better EPA mileage, plus they haven't spent a dime on marketing the Mazda2 since, like, 2012! A lot of people were waiting for the next gen to come out, so they didn't buy a 2014 model. If my old car hadn't died 3 months ago, I would have bought a 2015 or 2016 model.
Make a great product and people will buy it.

 

[Font Motorsports]

FONTMOTORSPORTS
Well, this pretty much seals the deal guys. It appears that at least for the near future, we will NOT get the new Mazda 2 in the United States.

I decided to contact Mazda US and found that they have a chat option. So I asked THE question. This is the response i got. If you guys want to ask them the question yourself or want to show you're disappointment in Mazda please send Mazda US a chat, call them, email them. Show them that they are wrong and that our opinions on this forum DO MATTER.

CHAT LINK ( Bottom Left of Page )

My ( our ) disappointment is real. I could have made this new Mazda 2 look great.

 

[drop360]

My ( our ) disappointment is real. I could have made this new Mazda 2 look great.

Not trying to be a dink, but if the new Mazda 2 was available in the US, would you stock all those parts to make it look good? I could be wrong, but you don't stock any parts for the current Mazda 2, do you? From what I've seen on the forum, everything you offer is drop shipped from the manufacturer. Don't get me wrong, you've done some great leg work to source the parts, and do what you needed to do to become a vendor of the products. But if you had placed an original stock order for 20 headers, how many would you still have collecting dust?

How much is Corksport stocking still? How much has Dynotronics been able to put into production and make available?

Not knocking any of you guys, but that just goes to show how un-popular this car really is, and backs up Mazda on their decision not to offer the new model in the US. If it was popular, and there was demand for the car, there would be a lot more demand for aftermarket. But it's not there because people don't want this car.

It has less power than a Fiesta. And significantly worse EPA gas mileage than a Fiesta. Toyota and Honda are seen as the benchmarks for reliability, so points go to the Yaris and Fit. The Mazda 3 is bigger, more powerful, and gets better gas mileage than the 2. So, from the perspective of its competitors, or from it's big brother, the 2 just doesn't make sense. Most people just don't want this car.

I understand the merits of the 2. That's why I own one. But I also understand why other people wouldn't want it. I like my car. But I wouldn't buy the new model. Mazdaspeed2, maybe. But not another normal 2. So... I'm not at all surprised that Mazda isn't willing to sell the car in the US.

Just my $.02

-Matt

 

[Traum]

Undoubtedly, the 2 pales in comparison to its competitors when it comes to power and gas mileage. However, I'd still say Mazda needs to shoulder the bulk of the blame for the relatively low sales volume. As far as I can remember, there was only a very minimal amount of advertising when the DE car came out in 2011. Marketing on main stream media has always been one of Mazda's major weakness. How would people buy the car when they don't even know about it?

Another "problem" with Mazda is, their primary target audience are the sporty bunch / enthusiasts. As an enthusiast myself, I know that while some in this group are willing to spend top dollars to customize their cars, the majority of them are, for the lack of a more descriptive word -- cheapa$$es. They are smart with their money, so more often than not, they refuse to buy new, and instead prefer to buy a used car instead. So the new car doesn't get noticed by mainstream people, and the enthusiasts will only buy used. How the heck do you build volume with a situation like that?

The majority of Mazda's cars and SUV gets very favourable reviews from the press. But people don't buy cars that just get good reviews in car magazines. Mazda needs a more effective approach to their marketing efforts that can actually help them bring in people who are willing to buy new.

 

[Font Motorsports]

@drop360

Yep, i do only drop shipping and i do agree with you on most of what you wrote. If I'm going to blame anyone for the Mazda 2's failure in the US it's Mazda themselves. Released 4 years after originally going global, non-existent advertising, below mpg to it's competitors, down on horsepower to it's competitors, worse interior quality then competitors, no SkyActiv.

But even with all these negatives it still got 2008 World Car of the Year, it got good reviews from most if not all car magazines, great buy for the money, fun to drive, great handling, even Top Gear UK liked it and called out for a MAZDASPEED2 version. So what when wrong? Mazda went wrong.

Ok, don't sell the new Mazda 2 in the United States, say that it didn't sell here. But the new Mazda 2 is steps above the current one in every way. Although still down on horses, it now has SkyActiv, better design, better interior, better EPA, better tech. So how can they know THIS one won't sell better? Why doesn't Mazda put more horses in it to compete with Ford, Mini and Fiat? Advertise the crap out of it.

Mazda screwed it up.

 

[DrWebster]

OK, so you all probably don't want to hear this, but I'm going for it anyway:

I think Mazda is right.

They're right in that car forums don't reflect the trends of US carbuyers. Yeah, we want the new 2, but I bet the rest of the US would offer a collective "meh." I absolutely believe that Mazda2 sales have been bad, but I also believe that the 2 is a statistical outlier because not of how Mazda has marketed it, but how the car is positioned.

Honestly, it's too Japanese.

Think about it: Mazda's bread-and-butter here in the US is the Mazda3. They've sold a ton of them, hell I even used to own one. They're great cars, and they do so well because they offer the size and creature comforts that US car buyers want. Americans have big garages, big parking lots, and big roads. We don't *need* small cars here, so to a large swath of the population small cars are seen as inferior. Americans want bigger cars for their (alleged) versatility and also because, well, Americans are on average bigger individuals. I have a few coworkers who are on the larger size, and we honestly never take my car to lunch, they just wouldn't be comfortable.

In Japan, though, the Demio is what helps Mazda pay the bills. Smaller cars are, for various reasons, more desired over there, especially small cars that still have versatility (decent amounts of cargo room, has a backseat, etc). When Mazda brought the 2 to North America, they really just brought us a left-hand-drive Demio with a slight facelift. The rest of the world loves the 2 because, well, the rest of the world has a lot more in common with Japanese roads and parking that it does with America.

Think about the most common B-seg cars you see on the road: At least here in the Twin Cities, I see a lot of Kias, Hyundais, and Mitsubishi Mirages. These are not expensive or fancy cars. I see a similar number of 2s, Fits and Fiestas on the road, but they're almost always base models. I'm honestly surprised when I see another 2 Touring. In America, small cars are just what you buy if you don't have a lot of money. And Mazda doesn't want to be lumped in with Kia and Hyundai; they want to have (and, I think, deserve) a more upscale image than that. Mazda's current styling design seems to confirm this.

Another reason may be economic/political: Gas has gotten cheap. At $2 a gallon, why buy a small efficient car when you can buy a bigger one? Mazda doesn't want to commit to selling the 2 here just to have to move them at clearance prices because nobody needs/wants a small, efficient car.

Mini and Fiat have come up in conversation here, but I think the comparison is apples and oranges. Those two cars are fashion-oriented and upmarket, and also generally more expensive. The 2 fits in between them and the cheap small cars, which is exactly the wrong place to be in America. And even if Mazda tries to go after Mini with the 2 by making it even fancier, they won't win because of the major difference in brand appeal between the two. Minis are, well, mini-BMWs, with all of the luxury brand connotations that implies. And I don't think Mazda will ever have a fair fight against BMW.

 

[Chris_Top_Her]

Yea here in San Antonio Mitsubishi Mirage is becoming very popular. I mean it's nice and it is low price. But it also has the lowest power of the bunch so I don't think engine power is really a factor as drop360 mentioned. Mpg is high yes. I see quite a few mazda 2 here as well though, and many mazda 3 (gen 2/3). Rod you should look into vending on the mirage forum, those guys are buying up the ultra racing stuff (multiple group buys). Actually they have stuff for the mazda 2 as well.

 

[M2MKE]

I agree with this car being too Japanese for the american market. At least Mazda took a risk and personally I applaud them for it.

I was stuck with the task of trying to replace a tired old Miata. Life after Miata is hard at any price, that car spoils you forever.

I found most cars too expensive, a bore to drive or too complicated to work on. This car is none of that.

I was ready to pay cash for a MR2 Spyder which would be a horrible daily driver.

This car is maybe 90% of the fun of the Spyder and 3 times the versatility so I drove off with 0 down and 0% interest.

Holy s***! I had a brand new lightweight car. With the money I was gonna pay I was able to buy an old truck and put a down payment for house.

I've been winning ever since. The truck keeps the hard miles off the 2 and soon I'll find that MR2 to compliment the 2.

I hope the upscale Mexican built thing works for Mazda. They have to do what they can to keep the lights on I guess.

 

[Jackman]

But again, the Mazda2 doesn't have to sell that well. The MX-5 sells worse than the 2, but it's still valuable because its image keeps people thinking about Mazda and bringing them to dealership lots. Likewise, the Mazda2 has value beyond its sales numbers because it brings people to the dealership with its low price point. I've heard people say things like they went to check out the 2, but the 3 was only $1000 more after incentives so the Mazda2 doesn't make any sense. To me, that sounds like the existence of the 2 sold the 3.

Do not let Mazda off the hook with the "America doesn't want sub-compacts" excuse. The only Mazda competitor that doesn't sell a sub-compact is Subaru. Toyota screwed up its sub-compact segment so badly, it's buying the 2 from Mazda and building a new car based on that. (This would be a nice consolation prize for not getting the Mazda2, except that being a Toyota, the car is doomed to look like a pig.) This means that those potential buyers who focus on price first will have a long list of dealers to visit before they get around to Mazda.

Yes, America prefers compact cars to sub-compact cars, but they still buy sub-compacts. To illustrate how this is a Mazda problem and not an American market problem, here is the ratio of compacts to sub-compacts sold in 2014 for every manufacturer that has a similar US lineup to the Mazda2 vs. Mazda3:

Nissan - 1.3 Sentras per Versa sold (183,268 vs. 139,781)
Chevy - 2.1 Cruzes per Sonic/Spark (273,060 vs. 132,677)
Ford - 3.4 Focuses per Fiesta (219,634 vs. 63,192)
Hyundai - 3.5 Elantras per Accent (222,023 vs. 63,309)
Honda - 5.4 Civics per Fit (325,981 vs. 59,340)
Mazda - 7.7 Mazda3s per Mazda2 (104,985 vs. 13,615)

If Mazda is only getting outsold by about 2 to 1 by their larger competitors in the compact segment but by 6 to 1 in the sub-compact segment, that is Mazda's fault, not the market's. And according to the international press, they've now got a better sub-compact product than everybody else, but they're not going to sell it here because they did a poor job of selling the previous one. You cannot tell me the Versa is a better car.

Note that sales numbers are ultimately more of an indicator of how many cars were built rather than how well they were selling. Cars don't go unsold. They don't ship the leftovers back to Japan. What we don't know is how much they had to discount models to get rid of the last few. All I know is, when I went looking for a Mazda2 last August, there were only a handful left at the half-dozen closest dealers to me combined, and only 1 with a manual transmission. They had endless seas of Mazda3s though, always with lots of incentives. Even now, they've still got tons of 2014 CX-9s left over, but the 2s are long gone. They even continued to build 2015 versions of the CX-9 and Mazda5 even though they sell in the same quantities as the Mazda2, but there are no 2015 Mazda2s. MazdaUSA just wants this model out of its lineup. Everybody else is investing in this segment.

 

[jasyatz]

If this car had either 20 more hp or 5 additional mpg, along with more media exposure it would have been better competition to all other small cars

Helped with some clarifications of how it "should have been done in the first place"

Mazda2 (104,985 vs. 13,615)

On another note, I have 1 of 13,615 examples sold...that's a rare car, collectible maybe?

 

[needmazda2]

Do not let Mazda off the hook with the "America doesn't want sub-compacts" excuse. The only Mazda competitor that doesn't sell a sub-compact is Subaru. Toyota screwed up its sub-compact segment so badly, it's buying the 2 from Mazda and building a new car based on that. (This would be a nice consolation prize for not getting the Mazda2, except that being a Toyota, the car is doomed to look like a pig.)

This.

or

 

[Chris_Top_Her]

Nissan - 1.3 Sentras per Versa sold (183,268 vs. 139,781)
Chevy - 2.1 Cruzes per Sonic/Spark (273,060 vs. 132,677)
Ford - 3.4 Focuses per Fiesta (219,634 vs. 63,192)
Hyundai - 3.5 Elantras per Accent (222,023 vs. 63,309)
Honda - 5.4 Civics per Fit (325,981 vs. 59,340)
Mazda - 7.7 Mazda3s per Mazda2 (104,985 vs. 13,615)

The Mirage outsold it last year too, US 16,708. Interestingly, it also sold about the same, 16,945 of the larger Lancer (also offered in hatchback).

 

[ScorpioGTX1]

Apparently, Mazda just debuted the 2 in Montreal a few days ago. I don't know why they would bother doing that if they had no plans to sell it in Canada at least. And if it's being sold in Canada, I think there's a decent enough chance that it will work its way down south, too, like it did last time.

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2015/01/2016-mazda2-makes-north-american-debut-montreal/

 

[Traum]

I came across this Mazda2 sales figure for the DE generation since it's N.American introduction in 2011:

http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2011/01/mazda-2-sales-figures.html

Year   US Sales   Cdn Sales
2010      3021        2868
2011    13,952        9020
2012    19,315        4935
2013    11,757        4072
2014    13,615        2449

Taking into account that the US population is roughly 9-10x that of the Canadian population, it is easy to see why Canada is getting the Mazda2. Still, it makes you wonder -- if it is worthwhile to have the car up for sale in Canada, is it not worth the effort to make the car available for sale in the US? In its best year, the US sales volume is still roughly 4x that of the Canadian volume.

 

[Font Motorsports]

Mazda's plan for the Mazda 2 in the US was a failure from the start.

I feel as if Mazda launched the Mazda 2 into the US market as an afterthought. It was released to the world in 2007, but came out in the US in 2011. Mind you, with hardly any of the premium options offered in other markets. It was under powered, under performing on gas mileage, less tech and lesser interiors compared to other vehicles in it's class. Plus it was only $1000 less than the Mazda 3.

Worst of all, ZERO advertising. How was the Mazda 2 ever supposed to thrive in the US like that?

 

[Font Motorsports]

Even with the new Mazda 2, Mazda still insists on only offering it with 113hp. How does this even come close to competing with it's rivals? I don't get Mazda man, and they sure as hell don't get me.

 

[Font Motorsports]

I'm taking the new Mazda 2 all day.

 

[Font Motorsports]

Maybe because the US got the cheapest Mazda 2 version possible. Did you see the Mazda 2 the UK and Japan got? Projector headlights, leather seats, SkyActiv, multiple tech options, multiple wheel options, multiple exterior and interior options, multiple engine options. The US got none of that.

Mazda saw that Fiat, Mini and Ford all were putting money into small premium hatchbacks and Mazda did the opposite and failed.

Mini and Fiat have come up in conversation here, but I think the comparison is apples and oranges. Those two cars are fashion-oriented and upmarket, and also generally more expensive. The 2 fits in between them and the cheap small cars, which is exactly the wrong place to be in America. And even if Mazda tries to go after Mini with the 2 by making it even fancier, they won't win because of the major difference in brand appeal between the two. Minis are, well, mini-BMWs, with all of the luxury brand connotations that implies. And I don't think Mazda will ever have a fair fight against BMW.

 

[Font Motorsports]

I agree with most of what you're saying but only the US offered a collective "meh." The rest of the world bought it and is now already buying the new one.

They're right in that car forums don't reflect the trends of US carbuyers. Yeah, we want the new 2, but I bet the rest of the US would offer a collective "meh." I absolutely believe that Mazda2 sales have been bad, but I also believe that the 2 is a statistical outlier because not of how Mazda has marketed it, but how the car is positioned.