Bad shift timing with AT?

[allsighs]

Hello all,

We've had our CX-5 for just under 2 years now and have loved it but am running into an ongoing issue. we had an issue with a low, throaty noise during acceleration, accompanied by some intermittent vibration. We brought it to the dealer and described the issue. I also told them it felt similar to what it feels like when you try to accelerate from too high a gear. They took it in and ran diagnostics and test drove it but were not able to replicate the issue. Needless to say the condition remains.

After further driving and looking between manual and AT modes, it seems to me the AT is overagressive in its upshifting but not in downshifting. It is regularly changing gears at 2k RPM. I am always in 6th gear before i hit 40mph. The noise and vibration are always from it accelerating from 1.5kRPM to 2k and is most pronounced in 4th and 5th gears. When i let the vehicle coast and return to acceleration, it does not appear to downshift properly...it constantly tries to accelerate from 1.5 RPM. I have to punch to finally get it to downshift. On top of all this I am losing 3-5mpg in fuel efficiency now.

When i drive in manual mode and do the shifting at approximately 2.5k to 3k RPM, the shifting feels fine.

I took it back and discussed the issue and they returned it to me stating that the early shifting is normal and what it is supposed to be like and that they cannot reproduce the issue.

Before i take it back again I wanted to get some opinions. Does everyone else's complete its gear changes that low? Anyone with a similar experience and did they find/receive any solution to this?

Thanks.

2013 Mazda CX-5 Touring FWD

 

[paris1]

The upshift behavior you describe is exactly the same as my 2013 FWD Touring, assuming you are talking about accelerating at a rather leisurely pace from a stop. If you've been driving this vehicle for 2 years, I assume you know that if you want to raise the shift points, you simply press the accelerator more aggressively and the transmission will hold each gear longer. Under light to moderate load, the default programing for fuel efficiency is to have the trans shift up as quickly as possible and for it to be in 6th by 40mph on level ground is perfectly normal for this drivetrain.
From your post, the real question seems to be what is going on with downshifting during rolling acceleration. There are occasions when the SkyActiv automatic will not downshift instantaneously when light throttle is applied at low road speeds in the upper gears. In that case you have two options. First is to apply more throttle quickly to "wake the engine up" (call that "punching it" if you like). The other is to shift to manual mode to select a more appropriate lower gear until no longer needed (as when cresting a hill or long grade). From what I have seen on this forum, most drivers are OK with these types of choices and have little problem adjusting their driving style to the SkyActiv automatic's "idiosyncrasies". Others seem to have a difficult time learning to "play the throttle" on the CX-5 and seem to be either foot-to-the-floor or bogged down in 6th with nothing in between. On the other hand, maybe you do have a legitimate issue with the downshift mechanism of your transmission. Only you and the dealer can sort out what's really going on here. Good luck!

 

[CC58]

Hello all,

We've had our CX-5 for just under 2 years now and have loved it but am running into an ongoing issue. we had an issue with a low, throaty noise during acceleration, accompanied by some intermittent vibration. ... The noise and vibration are always from it accelerating from 1.5kRPM to 2k and is most pronounced in 4th and 5th gears.
2013 Mazda CX-5 Touring FWD

The shift points are normal. Its seems your problem is excess vibration and noise. The vibration maybe a bad trans/motor mount. The CX-5 likes to rev as low as possible and dampening low rpm vibration is rough on trans/motor mounts. It could be the bad mount shakes has caused an exhaust leak somewhere resulting in excess noise.

 

[CC58]

On top of all this I am losing 3-5mpg in fuel efficiency now.

I missed this line. Bad mounts don't explain this. I recall a link I ran across while researching CX-5 about direct injections problems. Direct injection can cause carbon build up on intake valves causing loss of performance and misfires (which could explain your vibration). Some DI cars exhibit this problem, while some do not. Don't know about the CX-5. Here are two links of interest. The second link shows a method to try to clean intake valves.

http://www.edmunds.com/autoobserver-archive/2011/06/direct-injection-fouls-some-early-adopters.html

http://www.aa1car.com/library/intake_valve_deposits_gdi_engines.htm

 

[erhayes]

My 2014 2.5 does the same thing and it is normal to run at very low RPMs at times. When asking for more power at low rpms the valve timing is retarded alot which makes the sound you describe. This can be irritating at times but, is normal for this engine/AT setup. Not sure about your mileage issue but, may have to do with fuel or ?

 

[Kedis82ZE8]

I was looking at cleaning link. I wonder if pro-active use of Sea Foam in gas from time-to-time would help or if the direct intake method is the only way to use it?

I missed this line. Bad mounts don't explain this. I recall a link I ran across while researching CX-5 about direct injections problems. Direct injection can cause carbon build up on intake valves causing loss of performance and misfires (which could explain your vibration). Some DI cars exhibit this problem, while some do not. Don't know about the CX-5. Here are two links of interest. The second link shows a method to try to clean intake valves.

http://www.edmunds.com/autoobserver-archive/2011/06/direct-injection-fouls-some-early-adopters.html

http://www.aa1car.com/library/intake_valve_deposits_gdi_engines.htm

 

[Skorpio]

I am always in 6th gear before i hit 40mph.

I can't get in 6 gear manually until 45. How does yours get it on before 40? But your symptoms does sounds like engine bog.

 

[erhayes]

The AT learns as we drive so if you are consistanly a very easy driver then the AT will shift at the lowest possible speed/rpm.

 

[paris1]

The AT learns as we drive so if you are consistanly a very easy driver then the AT will shift at the lowest possible speed/rpm.

Sorry Ed, but this is a fairly common misconception about the SkyActiv automatic. Where is this documented by Mazda?

 

[erhayes]

I know my CX7 had a "learning" AT and thought I had read that the CX5 did also. If I can find the information I will post it.

 

[erhayes]

Owners manual: section 4-page 48 refers to the adapability? of the CX5 AT. You appear to be correct paris1 in that no mention is made of the "learning" or any such operation. Ed

 

[SayNoToPistons]

That learning curve will only be modified for a short interim depending on throttle and steering angle input. That is when it holds gears and downshifts more aggressively (with the factors of throttle, braking, and steering). Give it a few hundred feet of conservative driving, and it defaults back to its efficient self.

 

[vroom]

I don't think it learns, but it definitely adapts and anticipates according to your current driving style as SayNoToPistons said. For example if you start doing hard accelerations, it will start holding a lower gear for a few seconds even after you take your foot off the pedal, anticipating that you might want to engine break and accelerate quickly again after a curve for example. That is exactly how I would drive it in manual, so I love it when it does that.

 

[MikeM.]

I really appreciate the shift behavior and overall feel of the automatic. It feels very solid and quickly adapts to whatever driving mood I'm in.

 

[gova]

AT shifts are bad. I made a post about it not long ago (asking if possible to re-program)

Most seem not to notice/get bothered,but for me it is frustrating especially with 5/6 at low rpm.

 

[craigo]

I don't think it learns, but it definitely adapts and anticipates according to your current driving style as SayNoToPistons said. For example if you start doing hard accelerations, it will start holding a lower gear for a few seconds even after you take your foot off the pedal, anticipating that you might want to engine break and accelerate quickly again after a curve for example. That is exactly how I would drive it in manual, so I love it when it does that.

Could also be because some of the TSB's mention a learning procedure where the transmission control learns how to not slip, or something like that.

 

[vroom]

Well, mine is definitely not slipping, and my vin is way outside the TSB range. I think I read in the user manual that it is supposed to hold low gears in aggressive driving for the reasons I mentioned ( or was it somewhere in this forum...). In any case I love it!

 

[V8toilet]

I can't get in 6 gear manually until 45. How does yours get it on before 40? But your symptoms does sounds like engine bog.

Scorpio, with the 2.0 Skyactiv the transmission will shift to 6th at 40 mph but with the 2.5 Skyactiv it won't until 45 mph. I've owned the 2.0 and now have the 2.5. I think with the 2.5 there would be just too much NVH with the engine under load at too low of a Rev range (just a guess there).

Allsighs, when I owned my 2013 CX5 it had a rough vibration during cold weather, especially while in reverse. When I brought it into the dealer (two times) they ended up replacing the motor mount, which fixed the problem.

 

[Skorpio]

Scorpio, with the 2.0 Skyactiv the transmission will shift to 6th at 40 mph but with the 2.5 Skyactiv it won't until 45 mph. I've owned the 2.0 and now have the 2.5. I think with the 2.5 there would be just too much NVH with the engine under load at too low of a Rev range (just a guess there).

Allsighs, when I owned my 2013 CX5 it had a rough vibration during cold weather, especially while in reverse. When I brought it into the dealer (two times) they ended up replacing the motor mount, which fixed the problem.

Ah, my mistake. Thanks for the correction. I keep forgetting about the 2.0 being different in alot of ways (thumb)