Manual Mode Shift Pattern

[Skorpio]

For those who like to use the manual mode, does anyone else besides me find it odd that pulling back on the shifter UP shifts, and pushing forward DOWN shifts?! (drive2)

 

[hat1018]

I also think it a bit odd. It is the same as our 3 so I have gotten used to it.

 

[Skorpio]

I also think it a bit odd. It is the same as our 3 so I have gotten used to it.

Yes, I'm beginning to get used to it now, but for the first couple weeks I shifted in the opposite way and it really irked me. Why did Mazda program this in a (to me) counter intuitive way?!

 

[ALafya]

I believe this is the same directions as a sequential gearbox, found in race cars.
It is also somewhat similar to a manual, where 1 is up and 2 is down (this argument breaks down for 2 to 3 and 4 to 5). But if you think about it like that, it becomes second nature.

 

[deepfriedsushi]

#beacuseracecar (drive)

The pattern really does come from race cars in regards to the direction of G's a driver experiences while driving. It applies a bit more to cars with sequential transmissions, where the shift pattern is just up or down vs the standard manual shift gate pattern.

When accelerating, you're being pulled into the back of your seat, so it takes less effort to also pull backwards to upshift in the same direction. When braking/decelerating, you are being pushed out of your seat, forwards towards the front of the car, which is also when a driver would be downshifting. So it is easier for the driver to push the gear lever forwards in the same direction he's being pushed. If it was switched the other way around, you'd be working against the forces that are being applied onto you in order to change gears.

Manufactures are struggling to find a standard for this. It's a balance between "racing" logic and "conventional" logic (shift up is up, down is down) and what they think their customers would want. I read somewhere that the standard Mitsubishi Lancer's automatic manual mode is in the "conventional" layout, but in EVO trim, it's in the "racing" layout. So even on the same car, it's different, mostly because the customers for a standard Lancer and Lancer EVO are pretty different.

 

[hat1018]

I had a Dodge Stratus that the manual mode was side to side. Toward you was up shift and away was down. Leave it to Dodge I guess.

 

[Skorpio]

#beacuseracecar (drive)

The pattern really does come from race cars in regards to the direction of G's a driver experiences while driving. It applies a bit more to cars with sequential transmissions, where the shift pattern is just up or down vs the standard manual shift gate pattern.

When accelerating, you're being pulled into the back of your seat, so it takes less effort to also pull backwards to upshift in the same direction. When braking/decelerating, you are being pushed out of your seat, forwards towards the front of the car, which is also when a driver would be downshifting. So it is easier for the driver to push the gear lever forwards in the same direction he's being pushed. If it was switched the other way around, you'd be working against the forces that are being applied onto you in order to change gears.

Your explanation seems logical enough, but it's also conflicting. You say the shift pattern goes along with G forces, yet race cars ("racing" logic) have + up, - down. As far as street cars, Porsche has had they're Triptonic trans pattern since the 80-90's.

Manufactures are struggling to find a standard for this. It's a balance between "racing" logic and "conventional" logic (shift up is up, down is down) and what they think their customers would want. I read somewhere that the standard Mitsubishi Lancer's automatic manual mode is in the "conventional" layout, but in EVO trim, it's in the "racing" layout. So even on the same car, it's different, mostly because the customers for a standard Lancer and Lancer EVO are pretty different.

Mazda is known as the sporty car brand. Heck, one of their motto is ZOOM ZOOM. keeping with said image, don't you think they should have gone the "racing" layout direction? To me, if I want "conventional", I would've bought a Dodge as hat1018 pointed out (hand)

I had a Dodge Stratus that the manual mode was side to side. Toward you was up shift and away was down. Leave it to Dodge I guess.

This all being said, I have done some amateur motorcycle and SCCA car racing back in the days, so I would say I definitely fit in the "racing logic" pattern group. But, that's also why I bought a CX-5, and not a Dodge Journey (drive2)

Edit: I researched a little, and see the Mazda RX-8 automatic's shift pattern is the same, so I suppose Mazda just kept it that way. IMO, if they want to be known as a sport car brand, they should've went towards the (racy) sports car pattern like Porsche does.

 

[deepfriedsushi]

Your explanation seems logical enough, but it's also conflicting. You say the shift pattern goes along with G forces, yet race cars ("racing" logic) have + up, - down.

I guess for me, I always thought that race cars have this down is up and up is down shift pattern.

I didn't even know Porsche's tiptronic shift pattern was the "conventional" style. But again...manufactures are just catering to the customers. I would think people who get automatic porsches aren't too familiar with the race car shift pattern, so it makes more sense for up to be up and down is down.

Here's another example from porsche themselves.

Here is the newest GT3's shift pattern, which only comes with their PDK and is essentially their raciest version of the 911. It's using the "race car" pattern.

But in the standard 911 Carrera with the PDK, it's the "conventional" shift pattern.

And the whole side to side shift pattern in dodge actually came from Mercedes, when they were financially tied together. Some Chryslers were also fitted with the side to side pattern due to that relationship. - EDIT - I stand corrected, it existed before Mercedes became involved.

I too come from the "race car logic" point of view. I know this pattern really helped when I tracked my automagic transmissioned P5. lol. With seats that didn't hold me in as well as they could, shifting in the direction the way the G-forces were pulling me helped. (cryhard)

 

[Skorpio]

I'm sorry, I think we (or I) got confused (confused). I think of "race" pattern as +up, -down. Older Indy cars' sequential shifters were this way, and like I mentioned, Porsche did it this way over 20 years ago. But, perhaps in today's era the "logical" layout is the norm as Porsche is now doing it that way as you point out, while keeping "racers " happy with paddle shifters on the steering wheel. And, perhaps if Mazda did the same thing Porsche did with paddle shifters then I suppose this thread would not exist (screwy)

 

[deepfriedsushi]

All is good. I had no idea Porsche had that shift pattern for that long. I find it amusing that we can find all these different "standards" all across the board for cars.

There was a time that Porsche didn't want to use shift paddles on the steering wheels and introduced these rocker switches that all auto journalists complained about.

Now they've just completely done away with it and found a good compromise. All "racers" want is whatever the race cars have. The trend seems to be paddle shifters, so Porsche gave paddle shifters. I'd be happy with that.

 

[Skorpio]

so Porsche gave paddle shifters. I'd be happy with that.

+1 on that. I really like to use manual mode as I often miss my stick (no innuendos applied (rlaugh)), but the +\- action has got me all screwed up. The day Mazda releases the paddle shifter on the CX-5 I will be exploring retrofitment possibilities (wink)

 

[leeharvey418]

And the whole side to side shift pattern in dodge actually came from Mercedes, when they were financially tied together. Some Chryslers were also fitted with the side to side pattern due to that relationship.

Nope. Sorry.

The Autostick side-to-side shifter first appeared on the original '93 LH-body sedans. That was years before the Daimler tie-up.

 

[deepfriedsushi]

Ah. Thanks for the correction.

I guess I didn't noticed when Daimler/Dodge/Chrysler featured the side shift pattern in their cars. When Mercedes came into the picture, it started to get more mentions in the mags.

 

[leeharvey418]

What, you didn't give a second glance to the company that gave us 4,387 iterations of the K-car?

To be fair, I only paid attention to Chrysler in the early 90s because my brother was a mechanic at a Dodge dealer at the time.

 

[deepfriedsushi]

Lol. Probably it's because I was only 7yrs old when the LH-body sedans came out. (evil)