Lewis7789 2002 Protege5 build thread (tons of pics)

[PrinceValorum]

^Fo sho

Iirc the PGT guys use the BG non-powered rack. I can't say with any certainty. I looked into it, also, but the ratio isn't as tight to give you more mechanical advantage so you can turn the wheel, which means the tires turn less for the same amount of steering input if that makes sense.

 

[magnumP5]

Iirc the PGT guys use the BG non-powered rack. I can't say with any certainty. I looked into it, also, but the ratio isn't as tight to give you more mechanical advantage so you can turn the wheel, which means the tires turn less for the same amount of steering input if that makes sense.

Exactly, this is why I recommended de-powering. In the RX-7 world the power rack is like 17:1 and the manual rack is 20:1!

 

[THE Phen]

Exactly, this is why I recommended de-powering. In the RX-7 world the power rack is like 17:1 and the manual rack is 20:1!

Indeed. That way you don't kill yourself any more than necessary.

 

[JKPgt96]

Very interesting, AJ and iracemine. I didn't think the weight difference would be that noticeable. I remember I weighed my P5 with the partially gutted rear, half tank of gas, spare tire and me (180lbs) and it was 2840lbs. Brians (BrianMPt or something like that) said his weighs around 2300 IIRC.

But my P5's purpose will be for the track. But I still want to enjoy it on the streets every now and then, like on the weekends. Ya know what I mean?

I know what you mean...completely.

I am taking everything out of my Probe that I do not need/want. But I will maintain the look of a full interior. Meaning..I take out the a/c, heater core, etc..and a bunch of other stuff. But I will always keep my interior panels, radio, seats, headliner, etc..so that if you look in the car, it looks normal, and I have all of the convenience things that I want like PW/PL/PM/etc. The car is a toy, and I want to drive it whenever I want, and still be relatively comfy. If I wanted to gut a car, it would be a dedicated track car..and if I was doing that, it would not be a Probe. This thought, I find, to be very hard for many to get..but it makes sense to me! lol

 

[JKPgt96]

FWIW, I have a 323 manual rack in my PGT and I will never recommend someone depowering a rack in a KL car. The difference it night and day between the two. I de-powered my rack in the '96, and it was terrible to turn at low speeds (especially for me, since I am a small guy). With the 323 rack in my '95 now, I can still turn the wheel with relative ease and one hand at low speeds. Also, the deletion of the pump, bracket, lines, reservoir, and rack probably saved me 60 lbs. all said...again a place I have been able to shed some weight, and not make the car 'incomplete'. I have probably shed 150-200 pounds out of my car thus far, and I still retain a stock steel hood, all bumper supports, etc..with your car I would guess there is plenty of weight to shed without taking anything from the functionality of the car..just have to get a little creative.

 

[Lewis7789]

John, I read your post three times. Is there a typo or would you still NOT recommend for me to delete power steering and swap in a different rack? I'm confused... It sounds like you said you didn't like it at allin your 96, but then you say in the 95 it's easier to turn and the weight loss was around 60lbs. (scratch)

 

[HKPRO5]

I say keep the rack. The weight savings vs comfort isnt worth it. lol

I just came off of 2 months without powersteering. lol Not worth it for sure.

 

[Lewis7789]

Well my last 3 Civics haven't had PS so I was used to it. And the main reason is I hear you can feel the steering a lot better when on track without PS. That's the main reason I would delete it. The weight savings, freeing up another pulley on the motor and not having to run hoses are all a plus though.

 

[HKPRO5]

If you get into a technical turn, it wont be as fun. lol

 

[PrinceValorum]

Autox will be so much fun with a depowered rack..

 

[Lewis7789]

Is it opposite day and no one told me?

 

[PrinceValorum]

I forgot my sarcasm font. My bad.

 

[eprx799]

I've been running my rx7 w/o power steering on 9.5" wide tire for autox for 10 years. Lauri also ran the car with me and she seem to do pretty good as well.

 

[PrinceValorum]

I'd guess the weight of the car makes a big difference.

 

[THE Phen]

Weight and steering rack ratio. Mechanical advantage of straight manual racks is so much higher than just a de-powered rack. I had manual steering in my Rabbit. That wasn't bad. When I picked up the Miata from the bodyshop that I will never go to again... those ****** monkeys never filled my power steering reservoir. Thankfully it realized it was bone dry and kicked out the clutch so it wasn't actually pumping. That car was hell to steer at low speeds. Over 20, it was fine. I had to go to Target on my way home that day and it effing sucked trying to pull into a parking spot.

Evan, I've driven the older Civics with manual racks... I did like those.

 

[JKPgt96]

John, I read your post three times. Is there a typo or would you still NOT recommend for me to delete power steering and swap in a different rack? I'm confused... It sounds like you said you didn't like it at allin your 96, but then you say in the 95 it's easier to turn and the weight loss was around 60lbs. (scratch)

Sorry for the confusion. I was saying, I would not recommend de-powering a rack from my experience with my '96 Probe where I did just that. I would recommend swapping to a manual rack if you are going to address the steering. The difference is really night and day. The weight loss between having the PS rack/reservoir/mount/lines/pump and a manual rack is ~60 lbs if I remember correctly. It is MUCH MUCH easier to turn the manual rack than a de-powered power rack.

I say keep the rack. The weight savings vs comfort isnt worth it. lol

I just came off of 2 months without powersteering. lol Not worth it for sure.

I think being worth it or not is really up to the end user..you hardly notice the lack of PS once you are up to speed with a light car and a proper manual rack setup.

If you get into a technical turn, it wont be as fun. lol

Not true..once you are moving you barely notice the difference.

 

[THE Phen]

I don't recall if the Proteges are like this or not, but my MSM has speed sensitive power steering. Over 30 or so, the PS is virtually not there.

 

[PrinceValorum]

That car was hell to steer at low speeds. Over 20, it was fine. I had to go to Target on my way home that day and it effing sucked trying to pull into a parking spot.

I've driven my friend's Sunfire before with broken p/s and in a parking lot it's a nightmare. I almost hit a car because it fought me so much, vs how it would have normally turned into the spot with p/s. I guess you could just get a bigger steering wheel for more mech advantage, also.

 

[CheeseHelmet]

I've driven my friend's Sunfire before with broken p/s and in a parking lot it's a nightmare. I almost hit a car because it fought me so much, vs how it would have normally turned into the spot with p/s. I guess you could just get a bigger steering wheel for more mech advantage, also.

**** yeah, bus driver steering wheel in the P6!

 

[Lewis7789]

For the record, I would never simply de-power the rack. That would give me Popeye arms for sure. Tessa's TT PS pump died and I had to park it for her it was so heavy to steer. Haha