msms3 in your opinion is hypertech really that much better or is the ap a good choice too? ive been wanting one, there are a lot of people that are completely against it. are there curtain dp/tune combos that work together better or is it just buy some stuff and go have fun lol. my goal is to go full turbo back exhaust with a tune whats my cheapist option?
I can't tell you if Hypertech is "better" than AP. I've never had or used the AP tune. Ultimately it's probably a matter of what your goals are and where you want to end up in your mods. This varies widely from one user to another. You have to decide what you want, both short term and long term and carefully choose compatable mods. This requires a lot of thought and, I respectfully suggest, a lot of reading of threads here and on other forums. There is no single, "best" solution for everyone.
Let me take a stab at this from my own prespective. This is my daily driver, not a race car. If I wanted a drag car, I'd have purchased a completely different rear wheel drive platform. If I was going to track the car for road racing and trailer the car to and from the track, I'd probably look elsewhere. If I was trying to build a street racer with the engine life of a hand grenade and had the willingness to keep rebuilding the engine and replacing expensive drive train parts every time it goes boom, then I'd probably either look at a different car or give much different advice that I give here.
My goals are for a nice bump up in power for an otherwise stock daily driver, with reliability, predictability in performance and a minimum of bling or "look at me" racer/ricer boy cop magnet appeal. So keep this in mind.
1. I'm still on the stock rear motor mount. I think this was a mistake, even though I've gotten 42,000 miles out of it, with a LOT of hard launches. It's now pretty much shot. So, I intend to fix this next. Probably should have been #1, since it probably accounts for part of my really terrible 60 foot times at the dragstrip. I'll put in an SU mount when they come off of back order.
2. I assume you have a good intake. If not, get one. Either CAI or SRI. It's pretty much a toss up on power. I prefer CAI, but others I respect differ. Either way, you pick up about 20 whp just by that mod alone. If warranty matters, consider the MSCAI. If you are interested in the Hypertech tune, make sure your intake is on their tune list, as the program has built in MAF calibration specific maps for most of the more common intakes.
3. IMHO, it is a mistake, I repeat, a mistake to go full turbo back exhaust on this engine unless you are going to go with a big turbo at some point. It is hugely beneficial to go with a big downpipe and racepipe. That is where the restrictions are. The CBE is extremely free flowing up to and beyond the maximum flow of the stock K04 turbo. So go with a good catted or catless dp/rp combo and save your money on the CBE part of a turbo back, because it ain't gonna get you any meaningful power. It's just a huge cash layout for a change in sound. DP/RP, hell yes. turboback, no.
4. Regarding tune, this really depends on your objectives. You can go with a catless dp/rp and a good intake and run stock tune. I did for over 30,000 miles. But before you go with a dp/rp combo or any aftermarket tune, you absolutely must be able to monitor engine metrics, especially boost and AFR's. You do not want sustained boost much above 18-19 psi on the stock turbo, and do not want much over about 15-16 psi above 6,000 rpm. The tiny turbo just turns into a furnace at high boost levels when rpm exceeds 6,000 rpm with the engine under load.
I like the HT tune because it is MAF calibration specific and appears to tune off of the relationship between boost, timing and exhaust gas temperatures, rather thant focusing mostly on AFR's as with other tuning options. By keeping tuning parameters to try to maximize boost and advance timing without knock, while keeping exhaust gas temperatures at or below 1500 degrees, you get a nice increase in power, without creating harmful engine operating conditions.
It is true that you can develop more absolute power with AP, especially with custom tuning, or with Standback. You can also get in trouble with those tuning options, either by making tuning mistakes yourself, or by having a tuner that does not understand these cars and the conditions that are unsafe for this particular engine taking into consideration its displacement, direct fuel injection system (including the fuel pump limitations), intake, cylinder and exhaust flow characteristics, compression ratio and bottom end strength. You cannot take a cookie cutter approach to building safe, reliable power on this engine.
I want to be able to get over 100.000 miles on this engine.
The HT tune is very mod friendly. It works well with all mod levels, but has its limitations as mod levels reach maximum bolt on level. I'm just about fully bolted except for not having a larger intercooler. At my mod level, I am seeing a slight increase in power, mostly all at the top end of the power curve. What the HT tune brings me that I did not have before is soothness. The power delvery is nice and linear. The removal of the 0-60 mph restriction on the stock tune makes the car a lot more lively and fun to drive around town. All the safety features of the stock ECU are still in place, with the sole exception of a reasonable raising of the power load limits for load cut. The stock ECU will cut power at about 17.5 psi of boost in the higher gears, regardless of rpm, especially in cold weather. The moderate raising of load limits will let you run 18-19 psi without hitting the abrupt cut.
If you are looking to go big turbo, or want more extensive mods such as high flow manifolds, custom cylinder head work, forged internals, modifying compression, messing with camshaft lobe profiles and all that stuff, then HT is not the right choice for you.
I can say that with modest investment -- a good CAI, and a good designed catless DP/RP, the HT tune and some colder plugs, all for under $1,500 dollars, I have knocked over two full seconds off of my 60-100 mph times compared to stock. The difference between 8.1 seconds stock and 6.1 (sometimes as low as 5.8 to 5.9 seconds in cool weather) now.
I could probably knock off another tenth or two with AP or Standback. I could also run the risk of zoom, zoom, boom trying to gain that little extra bit of power.
