BlackMS6BTO
Member
- :
- Mazdaspeed6
has anyone tried Hypertechs version of a tuner on the Speed3 or 6 yet?
hypertech?
- Thread starter BlackMS6BTO
- Start date
- :
- 2007 Mazdaspeed 6 Sport
Sounds awfully dangerous...
BlackMS6BTO
Member
- :
- Mazdaspeed6
ya that doesnt sound like fun... maybe ill just stick with gettin the CP-E standback
- :
- 2011 Mustang GT
I don't like how tight lipped Hypertech has been about the product. They aren't out explaining what they're doing to gain power, while Cobb and CP-e are. Hate to say it, but that's not going to win much business over.
If you choose to go CP-e, plan on shelling out a lot of money for all of the flashes that go with the Standback, as well as the PnP harness. You're looking at over $1000 for all of that. Not to mention tuning time on top of that.
If you choose to go CP-e, plan on shelling out a lot of money for all of the flashes that go with the Standback, as well as the PnP harness. You're looking at over $1000 for all of that. Not to mention tuning time on top of that.
- :
- 2011 Mustang GT
I understand that, but I mean for them to not explain what their goals are is a little shady IMO. We know how to tune this motor, everyone has done the same basic stuff to a degree.
Chris@Hypertech
Member
Hypertech
Hi, my name is Chris, and I work for Hypertech and will be participating on the forum to field questions that come up about our products. I know its been long overdue, but I want to make this introduction post on behalf of Hypertech. There have been several posts commenting and asking questions about Hypertech and the new Max Energy Sport, and I hope I can answer most of those here. Theres a lot to cover, so this post is pretty long. You can shoot me a PM or even better, post up question up on the board for me to answer. Im sure a lot of people will benefit from clear answers. Ill do my best. Here's some specific information reguarding our tunes for the Mazdaspeed.
The vehicle we used to develop our tuning initially was a 2008 Mazdaspeed 3. The car had 4,836miles on it when we bought it. The first thing we did was stare at the engine bay and contemplate how to dyno it and get repeatable and accurate results. The top mount intercooler needed good airflow to keep the dyno testing accurate without excessive time between dyno runs. We fabricated a bracket to a 16 axial fan to bolt it right on top of the intercooler. With over 1200cfm pumping through the intercooler the dyno runs could be made 5-7minutes apart with great repeatability. We also outfitted the exhaust and intake tract with several temperature and pressure sensors so we could accurately determine the efficiency of the turbocharger and engine more accurately. (See attached photo).
We wanted to know EVERYTHING about what our tuning changes were affecting. We even measured the airflow after the blow-off valve to determine if it leaked under boost! It doesnt, but now we all know for sure. In the end, the tuning we developed was thoroughly tested and measured to ensure a great tune without pushing the engine and turbocharger past their limits even when we are pushing the engine to 7200RPM on a daily basis (+500RPM above the stock rev limiter).
We use AWD Superflow dynos which have a roll weight of 4400lbs. This simulates a fully loaded Mazdaspeed6 almost perfectly (4550lbs GVWR), which is an ideal testing scenario. All of our dyno pulls were made in 4th gear and take about 30seconds to complete. And we took what we developed at wide open throttle and moved the performance gains into the rest of the maps at part throttle. Once we were finished developing on the dyno and hit the road we only had to make minor adjustments to the tune to make it perfect. Thats so nice from a tuning standpoint, because it eliminates multiple sessions on the dyno. Plus, it confirms that our testing on the dyno really does simulate what the cars are going to experience in the real world, off the dyno.
Once we were finished with the tuning, we drove the car with the stock tune and then with our tune again. The Hypertech tune can be felt everywhere you drive; from part throttle driving in traffic to wide open on the track. We then realized that the low speed torque that the Hypertech tune makes was dramatically more than stock. The Hypertech tune just annihilates the tires when you put the pedal to the floor in first and second gear. Of course, the stock tune also does a good job at roasting tires, but its much less dramatic once youve gotten accustomed to the car. We just werent sure that everybody would want that kind of torque at low speeds. So, we spent some time roasting the tires from a stop, and figured out how to keep that low speed power under control like the factory tune without sacrificing the extra power at the higher speeds of the upper gears. We decided to add this tune to the Sport in the for of the 0-60 MPH Electronic Throttle Restriction option. It may not be the most accurate description of whats going on, but to the average Joe it does convey what it feels like behind the wheel.
Once we finished fine tuning the car on the road, we put the car back up on our dyno and measured the final power numbers. The graph we published comes from this 4th gear dyno session. The results are from three repeatable runs from the stock tune and the Hypertech tune. If you take your stock car to the dyno we expect your power to lay right on top of ours. Of course if you have mods like an air intake and/or exhaust, youll make even more.
The end tune thats in the Sport puts peak boost around 17-18psi which is about 3psi more than stock peak-to-peak during a dyno pull. Boost pressure comes on full at 2800-3000RPM and holds flat until about 5500RPM where it is tuned to trail off. This was due to the turbocharger efficiency dropping drastically as it tried to keep up with the airflow of the engine in the higher RPMs. Maintaining boost to redline would give a additional 10-20HP, but at the cost of ~200degF EGTs. That type of inefficiency would degrade the engine and turbocharger longevity. With our tune we are less than 100F hotter than stock during a dyno pull (~50F peak vs. peak). We just didnt want to do that with our tuning, and your car.
If you realize that the turbocharger is just an air pump, it stands to reason that it has a maximum airflow that it can pump efficiently. And you can see this in our dyno chart pretty clearly. The horsepower curve with our tune holds at roughly 250HP from 5000RPM to 6000RPM, and then trails off quickly. The turbocharger reaches its peak efficiency and holds there for roughly 1000RPM. Instead of pushing the airflow from the turbocharger in the higher RPMs by holding the boost steady, we had to roll it off to keep from superheating the air and overspinning the turbocharger. To make more power with this turbocharger, other parts are needed (air intake and exhaust).
Knowing that air intakes are pretty common, and a good idea for the power hungry, we went back to the dyno and retuned for several different air intakes. In a few weeks we will add this option to the Max Energy Sport as a free update to anyone who already has one, and all subsequent Sports will ship with the option already in them. The option will simply ask if you have an aftermarket air intake installed, and allow you to choose which one. The tunes are specific for each intake, so its not advisable to pick and choose. We have developed tunes for the following air intakes: Mazdaspeed, AEM, K&N, CorkSport, Injen, and Takeda. Compared to the stock air intake, these intakes dramatically lower the restriction the turbocharger is fighting to get air. With the Hypertech tune, the air pressure in the inlet tube going to the turbocharger drops from 4.5inHg to only 3.1inHg. Thats 30% less restrictive than stock. Typically the air intakes to alter the airflow going to the mass air meter, so this must be corrected. The mass air flow sensor is essentially the brain of the operations in the computer. If its not calibrated correctly there are a lot things that dont get calculated correctly. Once everything is corrected, the result is almost one more pound of boost from the turbocharger just because it can get the air with less restriction.
All totaled, weve made over 1100 dyno pulls so far. The car has over 12,000 miles on it today. Thats almost 8,000miles just tuning and testing this car. It is not a daily driver. It is a test mule that only gets driven for tuning and testing purposes. We have explored this tune from top to bottom to make sure it was the best tune we could make. And this is not out of the ordinary. I hope this explains the level of work and professionalism that has goes into our tuning.
Hi, my name is Chris, and I work for Hypertech and will be participating on the forum to field questions that come up about our products. I know its been long overdue, but I want to make this introduction post on behalf of Hypertech. There have been several posts commenting and asking questions about Hypertech and the new Max Energy Sport, and I hope I can answer most of those here. Theres a lot to cover, so this post is pretty long. You can shoot me a PM or even better, post up question up on the board for me to answer. Im sure a lot of people will benefit from clear answers. Ill do my best. Here's some specific information reguarding our tunes for the Mazdaspeed.
The vehicle we used to develop our tuning initially was a 2008 Mazdaspeed 3. The car had 4,836miles on it when we bought it. The first thing we did was stare at the engine bay and contemplate how to dyno it and get repeatable and accurate results. The top mount intercooler needed good airflow to keep the dyno testing accurate without excessive time between dyno runs. We fabricated a bracket to a 16 axial fan to bolt it right on top of the intercooler. With over 1200cfm pumping through the intercooler the dyno runs could be made 5-7minutes apart with great repeatability. We also outfitted the exhaust and intake tract with several temperature and pressure sensors so we could accurately determine the efficiency of the turbocharger and engine more accurately. (See attached photo).
We wanted to know EVERYTHING about what our tuning changes were affecting. We even measured the airflow after the blow-off valve to determine if it leaked under boost! It doesnt, but now we all know for sure. In the end, the tuning we developed was thoroughly tested and measured to ensure a great tune without pushing the engine and turbocharger past their limits even when we are pushing the engine to 7200RPM on a daily basis (+500RPM above the stock rev limiter).
We use AWD Superflow dynos which have a roll weight of 4400lbs. This simulates a fully loaded Mazdaspeed6 almost perfectly (4550lbs GVWR), which is an ideal testing scenario. All of our dyno pulls were made in 4th gear and take about 30seconds to complete. And we took what we developed at wide open throttle and moved the performance gains into the rest of the maps at part throttle. Once we were finished developing on the dyno and hit the road we only had to make minor adjustments to the tune to make it perfect. Thats so nice from a tuning standpoint, because it eliminates multiple sessions on the dyno. Plus, it confirms that our testing on the dyno really does simulate what the cars are going to experience in the real world, off the dyno.
Once we were finished with the tuning, we drove the car with the stock tune and then with our tune again. The Hypertech tune can be felt everywhere you drive; from part throttle driving in traffic to wide open on the track. We then realized that the low speed torque that the Hypertech tune makes was dramatically more than stock. The Hypertech tune just annihilates the tires when you put the pedal to the floor in first and second gear. Of course, the stock tune also does a good job at roasting tires, but its much less dramatic once youve gotten accustomed to the car. We just werent sure that everybody would want that kind of torque at low speeds. So, we spent some time roasting the tires from a stop, and figured out how to keep that low speed power under control like the factory tune without sacrificing the extra power at the higher speeds of the upper gears. We decided to add this tune to the Sport in the for of the 0-60 MPH Electronic Throttle Restriction option. It may not be the most accurate description of whats going on, but to the average Joe it does convey what it feels like behind the wheel.
Once we finished fine tuning the car on the road, we put the car back up on our dyno and measured the final power numbers. The graph we published comes from this 4th gear dyno session. The results are from three repeatable runs from the stock tune and the Hypertech tune. If you take your stock car to the dyno we expect your power to lay right on top of ours. Of course if you have mods like an air intake and/or exhaust, youll make even more.
The end tune thats in the Sport puts peak boost around 17-18psi which is about 3psi more than stock peak-to-peak during a dyno pull. Boost pressure comes on full at 2800-3000RPM and holds flat until about 5500RPM where it is tuned to trail off. This was due to the turbocharger efficiency dropping drastically as it tried to keep up with the airflow of the engine in the higher RPMs. Maintaining boost to redline would give a additional 10-20HP, but at the cost of ~200degF EGTs. That type of inefficiency would degrade the engine and turbocharger longevity. With our tune we are less than 100F hotter than stock during a dyno pull (~50F peak vs. peak). We just didnt want to do that with our tuning, and your car.
If you realize that the turbocharger is just an air pump, it stands to reason that it has a maximum airflow that it can pump efficiently. And you can see this in our dyno chart pretty clearly. The horsepower curve with our tune holds at roughly 250HP from 5000RPM to 6000RPM, and then trails off quickly. The turbocharger reaches its peak efficiency and holds there for roughly 1000RPM. Instead of pushing the airflow from the turbocharger in the higher RPMs by holding the boost steady, we had to roll it off to keep from superheating the air and overspinning the turbocharger. To make more power with this turbocharger, other parts are needed (air intake and exhaust).
Knowing that air intakes are pretty common, and a good idea for the power hungry, we went back to the dyno and retuned for several different air intakes. In a few weeks we will add this option to the Max Energy Sport as a free update to anyone who already has one, and all subsequent Sports will ship with the option already in them. The option will simply ask if you have an aftermarket air intake installed, and allow you to choose which one. The tunes are specific for each intake, so its not advisable to pick and choose. We have developed tunes for the following air intakes: Mazdaspeed, AEM, K&N, CorkSport, Injen, and Takeda. Compared to the stock air intake, these intakes dramatically lower the restriction the turbocharger is fighting to get air. With the Hypertech tune, the air pressure in the inlet tube going to the turbocharger drops from 4.5inHg to only 3.1inHg. Thats 30% less restrictive than stock. Typically the air intakes to alter the airflow going to the mass air meter, so this must be corrected. The mass air flow sensor is essentially the brain of the operations in the computer. If its not calibrated correctly there are a lot things that dont get calculated correctly. Once everything is corrected, the result is almost one more pound of boost from the turbocharger just because it can get the air with less restriction.
All totaled, weve made over 1100 dyno pulls so far. The car has over 12,000 miles on it today. Thats almost 8,000miles just tuning and testing this car. It is not a daily driver. It is a test mule that only gets driven for tuning and testing purposes. We have explored this tune from top to bottom to make sure it was the best tune we could make. And this is not out of the ordinary. I hope this explains the level of work and professionalism that has goes into our tuning.
- :
- 2007 Mazdaspeed 6 Sport
Chris,
Welcome to the site. Your huge post even outdoes most of mine. Some of our members may not have thought that was possible!
We appreciate any feedback, answers, and overall communication that you can give us from Hypertech. This is a company that a lot of folks here are interested in, but have had a hard time finding out more. If Hypertech is indeed pushing into the Mazdaspeed market with this product, you might consider becoming an Approved vendor on the site. If you want to know more about that, send me a PM.
Thanks,
Blendercloud
Welcome to the site. Your huge post even outdoes most of mine. Some of our members may not have thought that was possible!
We appreciate any feedback, answers, and overall communication that you can give us from Hypertech. This is a company that a lot of folks here are interested in, but have had a hard time finding out more. If Hypertech is indeed pushing into the Mazdaspeed market with this product, you might consider becoming an Approved vendor on the site. If you want to know more about that, send me a PM.
Thanks,
Blendercloud
AequitasVeritas
Member
- :
- 2007 Mazdaspeed3
I was their beta tester for the speed3. Been running it since 11/09. There is another thread on here with dyno info and such. Let me know if there is anything you need to know.
AequitasVeritas
Member
- :
- 2007 Mazdaspeed3
They have different maps for the speed6 and the other cars as well. There is one part number for the mazdas, but different maps for each car.
I full throttle shift and it works just fine.
- :
- 2007 Mazdaspeed 6 Sport
I think what Coldspeed was asking is will there be a feature to allow the user to set a rev level for wide open throttle shifting? I just wanted to clarify because your answer to the question is a bit vague.
i understand there are different maps, but there is slight different tuning for each, but i'm sure they would account for this.
AequitasVeritas
Member
- :
- 2007 Mazdaspeed3
that they did. They had a speed6 beta tester as well. I know him as he is local as well. its completely different from the speed3 but still has the same results.
- :
- 2011 Mustang GT
I still have a couple of questions, just like that one.
- Have you opened up the throttle plate to allow more airflow?
- In terms of tuning, is it limited to just the preloaded maps, or is there the ability to download more from a website or tuner?
- No lift shift, launch control, have you guys looked into these options being added in?
I think the community as a whole could use more info. I've seen some of the other products and they've seemed well, but I haven't read much from your application on the MS3 and MS6.
BlackMS6BTO
Member
- :
- Mazdaspeed6
this may be a dumb question... will the hypertech work with the CP-E full control flash or is the full control not even needed if the hypertech is used? and will the WOT box/2step work ok with the hypertech?
