Hawks Brake pads

[black_ninja23]

I'm debating whether to get the HPS or HP+ Hawk pads. I'd like to get a performance brake pad, but I've read that the HP+ make a lot of noise. Can anyone chime in, is it tolerable noise or is it something that I can get used to.

Another set of pads I've been looking at are the EBC, but not sure which type. And also the carbotechs.

 

[RaiderMS3]

I have EBC Green Stuff pads, and they are awesome. Kicked up a lot of dust during break-in, but has leveled off well.

 

[GoFast]

for every day street driving with occasional track/auto-x use i would say the hps.
For more track/auto-x focused performance go hp+

 

[black_ninja23]

I'm more about street usage and then rare occasions of auto x/time trials.

How are the HPS compared to stock braking power?

 

[GoFast]

About the same. Maybe a hair better. To be quite frank the stock pads are fantastic pads they just produce a ton of dust. The hps pads are a lot cleaner.

 

[black_ninja23]

Last question, do I necesarily have to re-surface my rotors? My dealership said to but I think they were just trying to get more money out of me...you know this economy!

And how hard is it to change the pads? Is it possible for novice like me?

 

[oaklandopen]

Last question, do I necesarily have to re-surface my rotors? My dealership said to but I think they were just trying to get more money out of me...you know this economy! ?

in recent years getting new rotors cost almost as much as resurfacing, but you're going to have to research that one yourself. some ppl say resurfacing is a gimmick and/or not good for braking abilities. it depends on the shop. resurfacing is nothing more than shaving a little bit of the rotor off so the surface is once again flat and even like it would be brand new.

but with resurfacing you're losing thickness. rotor thickness provides heat dispersion. so essentially the more rotor metal you take away the less you can remove heat from the rotor. there are also many specs to go by to make sure that the rotor is still safe to use (thickness of rotor before throwing it away).

once again, do some research to see what's better cost-wise for you

And how hard is it to change the pads? Is it possible for novice like me?

as for this, depends on the tools that you have. i know that i can do my own pads, but my knowledge and skills are different than everyone else's.

if you do plan to try it yourself make sure that you can properly bleed the brakes, and you grease the pads. i feel that those 2 things would probably be the most commonly overlooked by ppl who aren't completely familiar with what they are doing. you can't just simply take the old ones off and put new ones on.

other than that im not totally sure if you need any torx-type tools or torque specs on the bolts. i have the manual but don't feel like sifting through the thousands of pages to find out

maybe you can check the "how-to" section to see if anyone has done a write-up on pad replacement

 

[Hank3]

Here's a current thread about changing brake pads:

http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123763412

Be sure to read the bit about the rear calipers and compressing the pistons. I ran into that issue when I changed out my pads. Front was cake, but I hadn't come across the style of caliper pistons on the MS3/MZ3 before - due to me only working on a few different cars.

 

[Mid_Life_Crisis]

make sure that you can properly bleed the brakes,

Is there something that different about these brakes? In my experience, unless you actually work on the calipers, or in the case of drums, the cylinders, which could introduce air at the wheel end of the system, this should not be necessary. Just make sure there is sufficient fluid in the reservoir (but not too much - it is going to backfill when you compress the piston) and no air should be able to enter the system anywhere.
You are absolutely correct about greasing appropriately, though. That is overlooked often and can cause noise and in extreme cases failure.
The other thing that people don`t do enough of is cleaning. While you have the wheels off, clean the hell out of the area, as if it was something you could see when it is all put back together. That way you can be sure that when it all goes back together, no stray bits of crud will end up where they don`t belong.

 

[GoFast]

Is there something that different about these brakes? In my experience, unless you actually work on the calipers, or in the case of drums, the cylinders, which could introduce air at the wheel end of the system, this should not be necessary. Just make sure there is sufficient fluid in the reservoir (but not too much - it is going to backfill when you compress the piston) and no air should be able to enter the system anywhere.
You are absolutely correct about greasing appropriately, though. That is overlooked often and can cause noise and in extreme cases failure.
The other thing that people don`t do enough of is cleaning. While you have the wheels off, clean the hell out of the area, as if it was something you could see when it is all put back together. That way you can be sure that when it all goes back together, no stray bits of crud will end up where they don`t belong.

There's nothing really "different" about these brakes. I think oakland was saying to make sure you can bleed them in case you have to. Imagine for whatever reason you have open the line, or something weird happens that causes air to get into the system and you are not able to bleed them; you are screwed.

 

[dcomiskey]

Stick with the HPS. HP+ not for daily driving.

 

[oaklandopen]

what i basically meant about bleeding was that different vehicles have different bleeding ways. some are able to vaccuum, some can only use pressure bleeding. all can do the old fashioned way where you get a buddy to sit in the drivers seat and pump while you bleed at the caliper

i also spoke of bleeding because when you change your pads you might as well change over your brake fluid too. and you can't really do that without utilizing some sort of bleeding process

another thing about bleeding, do the furthest to closest in terms of where the brakes are from the master cylinder. normally, since most master cylinders are right in front of the driver, it would go passenger rear, driver rear, passenger front, driver front during the bleeding process. this helps to get rid of all the old to put in the new

oh and brake fluid destroys paint so keep that in mind

 

[AequitasVeritas]

I'm running the HPS pads and i love them.

 

[cornflaykes]

HPS front and rear with Goodridge stainless lines and Motul RBF600 fluid = Game over...

I love this setup(wrc)

 

[ericrapp]

I was just looking around her to see if i could learn a little more about our cars. i know i have alot more i could gather. but what i have read here in every helpful statemen and response has been quite good. I also got confused with the Ford Volvo Rear brakes. Once i had the tools it is no big deal. I also agree with the brake fluid change if you are up to it. I did not realize that moisture, internally, will build up and cause corrosion until i started to read up. I had used the hawks, both on different vehicles. They are absolutely a quality pad and i agree on the differences between the two previously mentioned. I think you wiil find that with a more aggressive pad you will have less life on pad and rotor! more noise? If dust is an issue you may not want a track oriented setup. There are also some warm up issues as you get closer to a track brake setup. I am using EBC redstuff and DBA rotors with the neccesary Goodridge ( or any stainless lines probably,( swelling!) and the Motul also. I drive the car in a spirited manner when the opportunity presents. or as often as possible which ever comes first. good job everyone for being so helpful. I was reminded about some things i had forgotten already!

 

[fasteract]

I have tried most everything on the street and road course track over time. I would give my overall nod to Carbotech XP8 pads (fronts..the MS3 rears don't really matter on the street) with blank rotors (cheaper the better)....great bite and modulation, very little cold start lack of grip, dirty as stink but noncorrosive to rotors with easy clean off, easy on rotors so "made in China" blanks perform like stars, and amazingly non noisy if bedded in correctly on clean rotors. Costly compared to some but hard to go back to other brands once tried.

 

[Hank3]

For DD, I have really liked the Hawk Performance Ceramics. I can go weeks without my rims looking like they did with the stock pads after only a few days.

 

[fasteract]

The ceramics seem to produce a lighter colored dust also, so less obvious to eye. Kleen wheels does make some dust shields for the MS3, both for the stock 10 spokers and for the RX8 5 spokes if you have a set (part #5122 for MS#, #5008 for RX8). I use them when I have real "dirty" pads (like the Carbotech XP8's) on with the 10 spoke rims since it is a real pain to get to all the crud filled recesses on them. The 5 spoke RX8 rims are much easier to clean obviously.

I use a high grip tire with the Carbotechs (Kumho V700 Ecsta's and the like DOT race compounds) when I can. They'll lock up lesser tires, even RT615's, for a split second before the ABS can kick in if you really get on the brakes...not usually a problem in the scheme of things but have the potential to make things a bit dramatic if it occurs at speed in corners or on decreased grip surfaces.