Accessport -vs- Standback

[maxspeed3]

I hope this doesn't cause a huge argument but can anyone tell me the advantages and disadvantages to both of these tuning options. I'm a little green and can't really decide which would give me the best result. I know the AP is cheaper than the Standback but it seems the Standback has more add-on's that might make it better even though it costs more.

Can anyone clear this up for me? I'm so confused!!!

-Max

 

[Sport6]

AP is good if you have no idea on what you are doing when it comes to tuning and don't plan on using the AccessTuner Race.

Standbank is good because its easily removable and has a lot of things you can add on and customize into your car.

Downsides to both:
AP - Has been said that the ECU is limited to 100 flashes. Detectable if you don't put the stock map back on if you need to bring it back to the dealer. Need to really listen to the recommended mods list for each map. Off The Shelf (OTS) maps might not work so well with everyone because every car is slightly different.

SB - Must get it tuned, comes zeroed out.. Some have argued that the ECU can relearn and compensate for the values that the Piggyback system has adjusted.


Downside to both: Risk of blowing up. I don't think people have fully figured out how to tune safely with this platform yet. Both have posted big gains under WOT, but most people (that have blown up) have blown up under light throttle/boost with these systems..

 

[Bravnik]

I hope this doesn't cause a huge argument but can anyone tell me the advantages and disadvantages to both of these tuning options. I'm a little green and can't really decide which would give me the best result. I know the AP is cheaper than the Standback but it seems the Standback has more add-on's that might make it better even though it costs more.

Can anyone clear this up for me? I'm so confused!!!

-Max

The SB is a Piggy Back. It changes nothing and lies to your ECU as to what the ECU sees.

The AP is a Flash. It changes the actual tables in the ECU.

The AP out of the box:

- Custom Tune Capabilities
- Pre-loaded maps that work for many people
- Full Throttle Control
- Gauges - Boost, AFR, KR, IAT, BAT Etc. on the device
- Data Logging
- Plug and Play

Cobb Extras - None


The SB Out of the Box

- Custom Tune Capabilities
- Expensive Boost Controller without tuning
- Gauges (on a laptop) but no KR (which is a must for our car)
- Data Logging - Via Laptop
- External 5v source

SB Extras - Full Control Flash, Plug and Play Harness, Larger MAF Flash, Cold Cut Fix Flash.

It really boils down to what your intentions are. If you want a simple flash and go, then it's the AP hands down. If you can tune yourself, then ether solution will work for you with the AP having more capabilities tuning wise. The SB does support a 5v source which is nice if you plan to run meth.

To me its a no brainer now that the AP can be custom tuned via the ATR. It simply brings more to the table and way more user friendly at a much cheaper cost (if you factor in the extras you have to purchase for the SB to make it comparable) not to mention it is a flash and does not lie to your ecu.

The SB out of the box simply pales in comparison to the AP and you have to spend more money to get what the AP comes with out of the box. On top of that you have to tune it yourself or have someone do a custom tune for you as out of the box the SB is just a boost controller and not much more.

However, for what it does, the SB is a good device.

 

[derspi]

Standbank is good because its easily removable and has a lot of things you can add on and customize into your car.

I don't see how the Standback has a leg up on the AP in regards to install considering you don't need to splice wires or get a harness for the AP and there's no control unit to hide. You don't even need the AP in the car after you flash the ECU.

Pretty much most of the bases have already been covered by the above posts so I won't go into it again. All I can say is that being an AP and ATR user myself, Cobb has made it pretty user friendly and for a guy that has little to no experience to car tuning, it has definitely made it more accessible.

Piggyback systems have been around for a long time but the limits of their effectiveness will eventually be reached as the complexity and technology in today's and future cars will make it astronomically hard to tune with them. This is the main reason why I went with the AP plus the fact that I do not have to install a single thing into the car unlike the Standback. And if I wanted to go back to stock for warranty or any other reason, I can do so with just a few clicks and it will be done in a matter of minutes.

The AP's lower cost, simplicity and the fact that it can be a very powerful tuning solution to those that need it made it a no brainer for me.

 

[12secondhatch]

i heard that the SB makes a lot more power...that guys with the AP are actually losing power over stock!!! from what i understand the ap is only a general tuning device and can't control the throttle even or get rid of the cuts.... u need the cpe flashes for that. im definitely going to be picking up a standback plus all flashes in the near futuure

 

[derspi]

^^

I think you may have been misinformed:

1) The AP has full control of the throttle.
2) I can't speak for everyone else but I'm definitely making more power than stock.
3) You can tune out the cuts with the AP, just takes time and some careful tinkering, I've been chipping away at this for the last couple of weeks with some promising results.

*Keep in mind that the fuel/boost cut is there for a reason - to save you from blowing your engine. I don't know what CPE does to quell this but if all they did was eliminate the ECU code that triggers cut then I don't know how safe that is either.

 

[Bravnik]

i heard that the SB makes a lot more power...that guys with the AP are actually losing power over stock!!! from what i understand the ap is only a general tuning device and can't control the throttle even or get rid of the cuts.... u need the cpe flashes for that. im definitely going to be picking up a standback plus all flashes in the near futuure

Ah....everything you have just quoted is false. Very very false. AP has full throttle out of the box. Also has the Cold Cut Fix out of the box. The CPE flash was designed because with a Piggy Back you can't control or fix those things. Thus they had to design a flash. One were you have to remove your ECU and send it to them to have it flashed and sent back all for MORE money.

The AP can do everything the SB can and more. You really should read more information and get your facts straight because as of this post, you will buy the SB under false and misleading information.

The ONLY reason why the SB has put up bigger numbers is because there was no ATR for the Cobb at the time that stuff was done. Those that were pushing the limits used the SB. However those same people blew their motor or parted out. We will need another group of people who are willing to push the limits again to find out the true potential of the AP. I'm not willing to take the risk myself.

So again, the information you have is very old man and does not apply anymore. Specially the less power than stock. That s*** was from when the AP first came out and Cobb released the 101 Maps which were VERY conservative to say the least. We are on 103 Maps with the AP out of the box and they are by FAR not conservative. Out of the box you will have a lot more power than stock.

Anyway. GL with the SB if you decide to go that route.

 

[maxspeed3]

The more I weigh the options, the more it seems as if the AP is the better way to go. One thing though in checking the Cobb forums is that it seems that they are no longer producing parts or maps for this platform. <tear>

Is there an additional charge for the ATR? I couldn't find that anywhere.

I'm really leaning to the AP now because I don't think I want to splice wires or pay more just for plug and play when the AP does that right out of the box.

-Max

PS - If anyone has dyno sheets of their AP or SB equipped cars, that'd be great if you could post them.

 

[12secondhatch]

So the AP has the cpe flashes on it already? Interesting I did not know that. like i said all my info was hearsay so i guess i need to just do more research before i decide. i guess maybe i did just hear some old info. n e ways thx again for the info.

-jeff

 

[MSMS3]

So the AP has the cpe flashes on it already? Interesting I did not know that. like i said all my info was hearsay so i guess i need to just do more research before i decide. i guess maybe i did just hear some old info. n e ways thx again for the info.

-jeff

? ? ? ? NO! NO! NO!

Cobb makes the AP. CPE makes the Standback. Different companies. Different products. Different approaches to tuning. AP remaps your ECU. Standback is a piggy back that lies to your ECU to make it think it is still stock while adjusting the tune. Each has its benefits and limitations.

I don't have either one, so I don't have a dog in the hunt.

 

[mpgti]

2 cents

With minimal mods, I definitely noticed a power increase when I installed the AP. I noticed an increase in boost, the first and second gear torque restriction seemed to be reduced, and the power cut at about 5800-6000 rpm went away and I was allowed to take it all the way to the rev limiter. I really have no idea how to custom tune but, I downloaded the ATR just so I could have the LC and FFS features. Modifying and flashing the OTS COBB map was way easier than I thought it would be. I was already a very satisfied AP user and ATR made me even happier. Reading the posts here, I get the impression that most people don't have any more clue how to custom tune than I do and there are a bunch of "know it alls" around here. Use what you want but, don't criticize what you don't know. If you have mods that don't seem to fit COBB OTS maps and can't tune yourself, get a stand back or standalone, or get the AP and have a pro use Accesstuner Pro and make a map for you.

 

[Captain KRM P5]

The more I weigh the options, the more it seems as if the AP is the better way to go. One thing though in checking the Cobb forums is that it seems that they are no longer producing parts or maps for this platform. <tear>

Is there an additional charge for the ATR? I couldn't find that anywhere.

I'm really leaning to the AP now because I don't think I want to splice wires or pay more just for plug and play when the AP does that right out of the box.

-Max

PS - If anyone has dyno sheets of their AP or SB equipped cars, that'd be great if you could post them.

it honestly doesn't matter if cobb is making parts or joe welder at random shop is doing it. with the ability to tune the unit yourself or have cobb pros with years of experience with the unit tune it, you're going to be able to eke the most performance out of your parts no matter what name is stamped on them.

i don't care what system you run, but off the shelf maps will never provide the gain or precision that a custom tune will. they are a good starting point and will do great for some, but they should not be seen as the end all instant fix as soon as you upload or flash one.

tunability is why standback cars had a leg up for so long. an accessport off the shelf map often provided less of a gain than a custom tuned standback - thats a no brainer. now that we have the software, the playing field is not only instantly leveled but the game has changed. accessport simply has no comparison or competition and as time goes on, this will be borne out further and further. tuners haven't even scratched the surface of what can be done on these ECUs now that the keys to the kingdom have been handed out.

 

[8.5MS3]

This should help

Heres a protune i had on the car for a while, mods are in sig (stage 1). 1st run was with all hard parts and no tune. tuned run was a protune set at 20psi. since then i have been retuned to 18psi and advanced timing a bit. gained some more power. when i get around to scanning the new tune ill post it up. hope these help

 

[nypz]

hey 8.5 , you plan on running a dp? would you need a new tune for that?

 

[8.5MS3]

hey 8.5 , you plan on running a dp? would you need a new tune for that?

Yea eventually i'd like to do a tbe, manifold, and intercooler for power. but for now im happy. looking to get coilovers and some fat tires next.

yes i would need a retune for every power mod. so im probably gonna do all of that at once n save some money, but thats somewhere in the neighborhood of 3-4 grand. so yea itll be a while

 

[spoolin_05]

it honestly doesn't matter if cobb is making parts or joe welder at random shop is doing it. with the ability to tune the unit yourself or have cobb pros with years of experience with the unit tune it, you're going to be able to eke the most performance out of your parts no matter what name is stamped on them.

i don't care what system you run, but off the shelf maps will never provide the gain or precision that a custom tune will. they are a good starting point and will do great for some, but they should not be seen as the end all instant fix as soon as you upload or flash one.

tunability is why standback cars had a leg up for so long. an accessport off the shelf map often provided less of a gain than a custom tuned standback - thats a no brainer. now that we have the software, the playing field is not only instantly leveled but the game has changed. accessport simply has no comparison or competition and as time goes on, this will be borne out further and further. tuners haven't even scratched the surface of what can be done on these ECUs now that the keys to the kingdom have been handed out.

Great success!!

 

[SwampAss]

I've owned both.

I had a standback for about 20k and just got the AP yesterday. (with about 150 miles on the map so I think it's settled for the most part)

I think Bravnik's post was dead nuts on.

My standback did make a difference. Admittedly, I never tuned it. I rode around like a douche with it zero'd out. I got almost 2 psi out of it and well, with it zero'd out, that was about it.

The AP is world's different. I'm a moron. I need something that pretty much does the work for me. Computers I can do. I plugged it up, 30 min later after my initial back up and map load was done and I was on the road. It was a little lurchy at first but after some drive time it seems to have smoothed out.

If you are like me and a moron, the AP with the Cobb supplied maps are about as easy as it gets. I noticed a substancial diffference between the untuned SB and the AP. Which is to be expected I presume.

 

[Speed3Rookie]

just wait til you learn to use atr to customize your map to your car.

 

[SwampAss]

I'm a moron.

please see above.

 

[Speed3Rookie]

lol......even a blind squirrel finds a nut every now and then.