Turbo lag in MS3?

[Lil_vicious559]

Research indeed.
I can see how this might be a problem with say a motor with a throttle cable and a distributor with mechanical advance. It simply doesn't make sense with the level of timing and engine control in the MS3. Hell even a 5.0 mustang ECU can pull timing if you go WOT at lower RPM.

What exactly is going on? Are we talking too much timing for the throttle position and the ECU just screws up? You're not making any boost at 2500 and it's just kicking in at 3K. The ECU can read that boost, so what's it doing? Does anybody have any DH data showing KR?

I would attribute that motor failure to the modifications taking the engine parameters outside the control of the ECU, not any fault of the ECU.

Otherwise you're telling me Mazda missed the boat, screwed up, and left something on the table when they designed this car. It's a great car, just don't press the gas to the floor below 3K rpm or you'll throw a rod. WTF? With mods I can believe it but STOCK..not buying it.

Regardless of how it happened or what you don't understand. Why would you or anyone want to stay at 65mph at 2500rpms and floor it. That's STUPID, you can downshift to 4th and have plenty of RPM'S to go WOT.

(uhm)That's like passing car's on a 2-lane highway trying to past a car at 65mph in 6th gear = FAIL

What you're missing here is, that when going WOT at too low of speed/RPM's . Too much boost is being build up and spooled. Causing the ECU too Probably Override reading (OVERBOOST)

 

[john blutarski]

The pings and perils of lugging a car's engine

By TOM AND RAY MAGLIOZZI
SYNDICATED COLUMNISTS

Dear Tom and Ray: I know that lugging the engine is bad, and I know how to avoid it. But what is it, really? What causes that pinging or clunking noise? Is the crankshaft bouncing up and down? Is there detonation in the combustion chambers? -- Randy

Ray: Good question, Randy. Most of the noise comes from mistimed explosions in the cylinders -- which is called "detonation" or "pinging."

Tom: When you lug the engine -- when you try to accelerate in too high a gear -- you make the engine work harder than it's supposed to.

Ray: When the engine is overworked, it overheats. The way it overheats is that the temperature inside the cylinders gets too high. When that happens, the gasoline-and-air mixture -- which is supposed to detonate when the spark plug fires -- detonates unpredictably at other times, too. That's called pinging -- when those extra detonations make a sound like marbles rolling around in a coffee can.

Tom: And under the worst of circumstances, you can also get piston slap, which is a "clunky" noise. Because you are getting uneven combustion inside the cylinder (the detonation doesn't necessarily happen at the right time or in the right spot), the explosion can force the piston off to one side when it descends during the power stroke. When that happens repeatedly, the cylinder walls get all scraped up, and over time, your car turns into the proverbial oil-burning heap.

 

[MS3Pilot]

Not saying I do it all the time, but I personally enjoy the feel of the boost build in 6th gear from 2500 RPM or so. Also, I don't see how it could have any real bad effects on the engine. Sure it creates high cylinder pressures, but I can't imagine detonation being a problem. These cars run rich anyway, and WOT at 2500 would invoke WOT fuel enrichment, as well as little air from the turbo to lean it out. Stock it shouldn't cause any problems.

 

[builthatch]

Not saying I do it all the time, but I personally enjoy the feel of the boost build in 6th gear from 2500 RPM or so. Also, I don't see how it could have any real bad effects on the engine. Sure it creates high cylinder pressures, but I can't imagine detonation being a problem. These cars run rich anyway, and WOT at 2500 would invoke WOT fuel enrichment, as well as little air from the turbo to lean it out. Stock it shouldn't cause any problems.

NO NO NO!

 

[robin2660]

NO NO NO!

система

System?

 

[Sphincter]

система

System?

<offtopic>
Robin, are you Russian?
</offtopic>

 

[robin2660]

<offtopic>
Robin, are you Russian?
</offtopic>

Nah. Took a little Russian in college (many moons ago)

 

[builthatch]

система

System?

yes, "the system". russian hand to hand combat technique.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7_dzu4TQDs

 

[robin2660]

yes, "the system". russian hand to hand combat technique.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7_dzu4TQDs

Good stuff!

 

[Sphincter]

You got me excited, thinking there was another comrad from the mother land rocking an MS3.
Now back to topic!

 

[Gmac03]

I understand again all about pinging or knock, but one WOT pull from a low rpm in a high gear is not going to do any damage to your engine.

Now if i'm tracking this car and for long periods of time i'm driving it around like that, then you have something. But no way just cause i'm dropped to six gear on the highway and I don't want to down shift and pass a car at mach 5 that it's going to hurt my engine.

There's just too much going on with the brains of this car to think it is going to blow up from a high gear low rpm pull. Again if you're tracking it, thats a different story, but under normal dd conditions not gonna happen.

And I would think as far as timing goes at a lower rpm, if the ecu is capable, it's probably advancing it instead of retarding it.

Gmac

 

[240ka]

But no way just cause i'm dropped to six gear on the highway and I don't want to down shift and pass a car at mach 5 that it's going to hurt my engine.

Gmac

hahaha
(drive2)

 

[steven88]

Dumb question from owner new to turbos. It usually happens in 6th gear around 2500rpm-2800rpm after releasing gas then going WOT . There is slight hesitation as if there is no power then after 3k rpm, it goes. If gradually stepping on gas then flooring it around that rpm then no issues. Is this turbo lag or something else?

I experience the same thing and I think its completely normal...

 

[hyperpm]

Thanks for the info guys. If I do need to accelerate quickly then I do downshift or make sure I'm in the right gear. But on my commutes in the morning where you stay in 6th, slow down then quickly speed up I do notice this issue sometimes. Since this car has so much torque down low I wouldn't think this would be a big deal. Heat soak maybe playing a role in it as well?

 

[steven88]

Thanks for the info guys. If I do need to accelerate quickly then I do downshift or make sure I'm in the right gear. But on my commutes in the morning where you stay in 6th, slow down then quickly speed up I do notice this issue sometimes. Since this car has so much torque down low I wouldn't think this would be a big deal. Heat soak maybe playing a role in it as well?

heat soak can play a role too...but i would say downshift to 5th so you can get into the 3500 range....or you can stay in 6th but accelerate lightly...maybe 25 to 50%....no point in going WOT at that RPM...

I find it sufficient enough to go 25% throttle in 6th and accelerate to the speed I want

 

[J-Villa]

Some of the people in this thread need to drive automatics. Trying to argue why you can floor it in 6th gear and it won't be bad for the car...

the more of a performance car you get into, the better care you gotta take of it. This means that there won't be as many nanny systems to help you to remember to do things (like downshifting). Sure, you can floor it in 6th gear with a stock car and your motor won't explode... If it does, then you still have a warantee...

But what about when that warantee is gone, and you've been treating your car like s*** the whole time it was covered? Then you go to do your usual WOT in 6th gear pass instead of gearing down (which doesn't nessisarilly mean you have to fly by @ mach speed) and your engine pops, and what do you know... you don't have any warantee. Then you'll be on the forums bitching about how poor of a car Mazda built and it couldn't handle your driving style. blah blah blah

ANY type of engine put under heavy loads in low RPMs causes stress. Some engines are generally good at coping with this stress (like diesels), while others need to be brought higher into their revs to work efficiently. Thats why some delivery trucks have a super low starting gear... to reduce the effort put onto the engine.

It's really not a hard concept... But it's your car not mine. do what you want to it.

 

[tuOdekcalB]

What does WOT stand for?

 

[john blutarski]

Wide Open Throttle

 

[ms6acton]

Some of the people in this thread need to drive automatics. Trying to argue why you can floor it in 6th gear and it won't be bad for the car...

the more of a performance car you get into, the better care you gotta take of it. This means that there won't be as many nanny systems to help you to remember to do things (like downshifting). Sure, you can floor it in 6th gear with a stock car and your motor won't explode... If it does, then you still have a warantee...

But what about when that warantee is gone, and you've been treating your car like s*** the whole time it was covered? Then you go to do your usual WOT in 6th gear pass instead of gearing down (which doesn't nessisarilly mean you have to fly by @ mach speed) and your engine pops, and what do you know... you don't have any warantee. Then you'll be on the forums bitching about how poor of a car Mazda built and it couldn't handle your driving style. blah blah blah

ANY type of engine put under heavy loads in low RPMs causes stress. Some engines are generally good at coping with this stress (like diesels), while others need to be brought higher into their revs to work efficiently. Thats why some delivery trucks have a super low starting gear... to reduce the effort put onto the engine.

It's really not a hard concept... But it's your car not mine. do what you want to it.

(10)

 

[Wurf]

Some of the people in this thread need to drive automatics. Trying to argue why you can floor it in 6th gear and it won't be bad for the car...

the more of a performance car you get into, the better care you gotta take of it. This means that there won't be as many nanny systems to help you to remember to do things (like downshifting). Sure, you can floor it in 6th gear with a stock car and your motor won't explode... If it does, then you still have a warantee...

But what about when that warantee is gone, and you've been treating your car like s*** the whole time it was covered? Then you go to do your usual WOT in 6th gear pass instead of gearing down (which doesn't nessisarilly mean you have to fly by @ mach speed) and your engine pops, and what do you know... you don't have any warantee. Then you'll be on the forums bitching about how poor of a car Mazda built and it couldn't handle your driving style. blah blah blah

ANY type of engine put under heavy loads in low RPMs causes stress. Some engines are generally good at coping with this stress (like diesels), while others need to be brought higher into their revs to work efficiently. Thats why some delivery trucks have a super low starting gear... to reduce the effort put onto the engine.

It's really not a hard concept... But it's your car not mine. do what you want to it.

I think you're right. I'm going to take my speed back to the dealer and get a 5 with an automagic instead. All this stick shift stuff is too confusing for me and I just don't want to break anything. I wonder if they make the 5 in powder puff blue?

Seeya