Engine Failure... I think

[SuperStretch18]

...plus if there is oil and coolant draining from the car you know that something else happened besides a backed out oil drain plug.

Good luck with everything man.

QFT. How could there have been oil draining from the car when it failed, if it died because the oil completely drained?

 

[s-retire]

Good Question, but isn't there more to it?

QFT. How could there have been oil draining from the car when it failed, if it died because the oil completely drained?

If the engine had no oil, shouldn't there be some indication of that condition before an internal component breaks and pokes a hole in the block?

 

[SuperStretch18]

Should be the oil pressure warning. I assume that no oil would trigger the oil pressure light, but that might be assuming too much! LOL!

Seriously, I think they tried to BS you, so that your insurance would cover it...

 

[F430TECH]

Well since the rod poked a hole in the block, should there be oil all over the engine bay? Also the black smoke filling the cabin suggests burning oil. Which means it was present to SOME degree during the catastrophic event...and the fact that the wiring harness was melted? Sounds like burning oil to me, lucky the whole car didnt go up in smoke...

I am telling you they drained the oil in an attempt to say it was your fault because you didnt tighten the oil drain plug tight enough.

The dealership knows that most people who own these cars do not usually trust the technicians to do ANYTHING...including something as simple as changing oil, I mean how many poeple on these forums change their own oil? They are just trying to make it seem like it was your own fault in the hope that you wont argue...

Tell them you want a new car and you want it PRONTO...

 

[DaleNixon]

Dammit I'm gonna start taking pictures of my drain and fill bolts every day just for added insurance against this kind of bulls***.

 

[LukeP]

thats the worst piece of information i've heard in a long time. if that's the case, i've got to start changing my driving habits seriously with this car. i love taking it from around 2500 rpm, rolling on the throttle decently heavily, then taking it up to 4500-5000 rpm. produces a pretty sweet illusion of additional power, because you're going from the low end where the turbo isn't spooled yet and quickly up to the meat of the powerband.

guess im gonna have to start downshifting before i get on it from now on, and hope i haven't done any damage to the motor already (pissed)

sorry to the OP for kind of jacking the thread for a minute, but reading that has me kinda worried about my own engine now.

I wouldn't read too much into that. Most of those "problems" come from people that are bypassing the stock ignition parameters through mods and jacking up the induction through more mods. And the reports of that being that cause are subject to much skepticism. The combustion temperatures are highest around 3,000 RPM because the air/fuel mix is still on the lean side but there is a big boost spike there, causing KR. But thats also the torque sweet spot. I think if you're stock, or you have a 2008 and above MS3, then your fuel system should be more than capable of hosing the chamber with enough excess fuel to keep it cool. I'm constantly using the torque peak in tall gears and I don't expect any issues, but I do have a warranty padding that fuels my apathy.

As for the sub-2,500 rpm throttling...other than chugging the engine, the fact that there is no boost there makes it pretty safe. There's a lot of extra fuel being unburned at those low RPMS with no forced air to lean out the mix. Reading some dashhawk recordings in the ECU forum, I've never seen KR happen out of boost.

I may get worse gas mileage than other MS3 owners (22mpg city), but at least that tells me the ECU is dumping extra fuel into the charge, just for the sake of cooling, keeping my tailpipe nice and black.

 

[08cosmic3]

I have read before that when the low oil light on our car comes on it's already to late, the engine is done.

 

[s-retire]

That could be very valuable information

I have read before that when the low oil light on our car comes on it's already to late, the engine is done.

Can you point me to where I might be able to access it.

Needless to say it didn't go well today. I'll post more after I open a cold can of Torazine and calm down a little.

 

[mmspeed3]

When the dealer changed the oil, do you think they filled the engine with the regular 2.0L or 2.3L (non-Speed) quantity? How much does the service ticket say they added? Did you see or check the dipstick after that dealer changed the oil?

That shortage of "consistent oil pressure & feed to the con rods" may explain the following:
1 - Con rod expansion, which causes rotational friction with the crank's pin journal side walls. Thus...your shattered con rod(s).
2 - The fact that the oil pressure warning light didn't come on. It only requires 2-6psi of oil pressure keep the light off.

Other questions...sorry.
Have you asked to see the oil pan / underside of your car?
Were the threads for the drain plug in the oil pan cross threaded?
Does it look like any of the oil lines / tubes were leaking (probably hard to see now, but check 'em...)?
Is the correct size / type oil filter on the engine?
How do the cams look?
Are they hot / burned / stained?
Exhaust 7 & 8 cam lobes are the furthest away from the oil feed to the cylinder head from the cylinder block and would potentially be the first to get starved of oil, in a shortage situation.
How do the other con rod bearings look? (I suspect they are cooked but check 'em).
If any of them are OK or if any of the con rod 'crank end's' spin freely on the crank's pin journals, then you may have had a more localized oil supply issue.

A bit long....and after re-reading this one myself, sounds like I need a new hobby.

 

[PCspeed3]

When the dealer changed the oil, do you think they filled the engine with the regular 2.0L or 2.3L (non-Speed) quantity? How much does the service ticket say they added? Did you see or check the dipstick after that dealer changed the oil?

This is what I thought happened to my car, hence the stickr on the window says 5W-20 which is what regular MZ3 takes ( as well as 2 quarts less oil) So I called and the lady told me they just dont change the number on the printer (lazy bastards) but lucikly my car was filled up to max with 6 quarts. It is possible however that jackoff joe in your service department thought it was an MZ3 rather than MS3 and put 4 quarts in instead of 6?

 

[Speed3Rookie]

I've never seen KR happen out of boost.

Part throttle kr is common out of boost.

 

[s-retire]

That shortage of "consistent oil pressure & feed to the con rods" may explain the following:
1 - Con rod expansion, which causes rotational friction with the crank's pin journal side walls. Thus...your shattered con rod(s).
2 - The fact that the oil pressure warning light didn't come on. It only requires 2-6psi of oil pressure keep the light off.

A bit long....and after re-reading this one myself, sounds like I need a new hobby.

So many questions, thanks for the interest.

First a question for you. Am I correct in my interpretation of what you wrote, that there would be insufficient cooling of the rod bearings with oil pressures high enough to keep the oil pressure light switch from closing? If that is true, and with the actual occurrence of fire due to the failure, isnt this enough of a hazard to warrant a NHSTA recall? Ill explore that further this weekend.

Back to your questions:

Before my wife left for the trip, I checked the fluids, so Im sure the correct quantity of oil was used.

The dealer where the car was towed is 100 miles away from my home. It was dark when I picked my wife up there so I didnt get a good look at the car. Ill be picking the car up from the dealer this weekend and transporting it home. After I get the car home, Ill take a look at the things that you suggest except for those that I would need to disassemble the car to see. The Service Manager at Wheeler tells me that the threads in the pan are pristine.

As of now, Mazda will not be honoring a warranty claim without a huge fight. This is in spite of the fact that it has been acknowledged that there was no error on mine or my wifes part.

Based on the fact that the engine failure caused a fire, Customer Assistance has also made a demand that I file a claim with my car insurance company. I did that this afternoon. Even if the insurance company does payout for the fire (only part of the loss) they will seek restitution from the entity responsible for the cause of the fire, Mazda.

Im still very pissed that Mazda doesnt step up to the plate and handle this as warranty. There are so many reasons why they should.

1. Mazda is the holder of the warranty.
2. Even if the drain plug was the cause of the loss of oil, the oil pressure indicator failed to provide sufficient warning to prevent catastrophic failure. They designed the car and selected the components.
3. They licensed the franchise dealer that serviced the car, therefore the have the best recourse to seek restitution.

Am I missing something?

 

[s-retire]

Can you point me in the right direction

Oh, there's been lots, you're just on the wrong forums to be hearing about them ... even though the rods are forged, they have been bending and then snapping completely. Most times it's on a modded engine but for sure stock ones have gone as well. This DI turbo technology is new to Mazda/Ford and I'm sure they've learned a ton and will make some changes for the next go-around.

So I can learn more about this?

 

[BayAreaMS3]

Oil Oil

I once got lazy and decided to take my beloved Ms3 over to the south bay 'San jose' Oak Tree Mazda for an oil change last June 2008. After I got my car back I headed over to the Mall. Looked for the cleanest and best park spot. Came back from the Mall and noticed a puddle of oil under the car. Drain plug was loose. I'd say just about under a half qt. I did not want to risk any damage. Had to call the wife to bring me some oil and my tools.

 

[Lee456]

This is what I thought happened to my car, hence the stickr on the window says 5W-20 which is what regular MZ3 takes ( as well as 2 quarts less oil) So I called and the lady told me they just dont change the number on the printer (lazy bastards) but lucikly my car was filled up to max with 6 quarts.

The story about the dealer's computer seems to be pretty common. Same thing happened to me at the dealer here in Phoenix. I got home before I looked at the service ticket and saw that it said 5w-20. As ususal, I couldn't get the service advisor on the phone so I drove back over there and talked to the service manager. He claimed the computer just prints that on all the oil changes and that they put in the correct oil. It was full. There was no way to prove what weight oil it was.

As for the warrenty problem here, I don't see what possible excuse they could offer to not fix your car. At the least they should have to provide you something in writing giving the reason they wouldn't fix it. As much as I hate lawyers, you might need to get one. That might be cheaper than buying a new engine.

 

[fragchild]

So dealer changes oil
Drain plug comes loose
Engine goes boom
Now they don't want to fix it?
F' that, get an attorney.

There is absolutely no reason it shouldn't get fixed by Mazda. I would NOT bring the car home. That way they can't come back and say something was tampered with. Leave it there until it's fixed or replaced

 

[Sport6]

So dealer changes oil
Drain plug comes loose
Engine goes boom
Now they don't want to fix it?
F' that, get an attorney.

There is absolutely no reason it shouldn't get fixed by Mazda. I would NOT bring the car home. That way they can't come back and say something was tampered with. Leave it there until it's fixed or replaced

+1 You are accepting their outcome if you take it home.

 

[khoney]

Not honoring the warranty without a fight? Thats ridiculous! I had my engine replaced at 30K under warranty because of low compression in a cylinder (didn't even know it). I changed my own oil ever since I got the car. They didn't give me any grief, even though I hadn't kept receipts for the oil and filters I bought.

Sounds like it's lawyer time...

 

[shane02pro5]

Do not pick up the car!!! You need to take this to corporate... completely unacceptable. Filing with insurance will not work with the blown motor, maybe fire damage that could have had a worse outcome due to their service departments incompetence to properly tighten a damn drain plug.

 

[kingpin748]

**** Mazda and their typical bulls***.