AP vs Standback

I've been stuck between these 2 for a while.

But now since CP-E has a plug n play harness, it's game on.

The Cobb AP has been a disappointment to alot of people. I haven't heard anything bad about the CP-E stuff yet.
 
was the only thing switched the engine management?

this is comparing an emailed map (AP) vs a dyno/street tuned map (standback)?
 
Yes this is a Beta Map running against a Custom Tuned SB Map running Meth. It's done by a guy who has a VESTED interest in CPE and their products.

It's not an even remotely fair comparison. Specially seeing as Laloosh has way more mods than I did when I did my Dyno day using an OTS 103 Map and he put down 1WHP more than I did? Yah right.
 
Yes this is a Beta Map running against a Custom Tuned SB Map running Meth. It's done by a guy who has a VESTED interest in CPE and their products.

It's not an even remotely fair comparison. Specially seeing as Laloosh has way more mods than I did when I did my Dyno day using an OTS 103 Map and he put down 1WHP more than I did? Yah right.

no meth were run on either run as far as I know. It was just bolt ons with a custom tune on both the standback and AP. Basically putting the best of one tune against the best of another with the same car in the middle. CP-E wins
 
I doubt there was any trickery going on here, the guy who let him use his AP was right there, what would be the reason for everyone to bash what he uses in his car? Standback>AP
 
oh I agree, right now the biggest gains are through a piggy-back EMS. The SB has the ability to control meth, but I don't believe you can do that with the AP
 
no meth were run on either run as far as I know. It was just bolt ons with a custom tune on both the standback and AP. Basically putting the best of one tune against the best of another with the same car in the middle. CP-E wins

Meth was run on the SB.
 
I doubt there was any trickery going on here, the guy who let him use his AP was right there, what would be the reason for everyone to bash what he uses in his car? Standback>AP

Laloosh purchased his own AP. Laloosh is a known fly by night user. This time last year CPE was the worst company in the world, he pulled all his CPE s*** and sold it. Now CPE is the greatest thing sense sliced bread. He switches with the wind man and has lost almost all his forum respect. Just ask around.

He use to do good for the community, now I personally believe that the community is better off without him. He knows all and everyone else are idiots unless they agree with him. This includes people like Cobb and any other vendor he does not use.

He has a vested interest in CPE man. Don't forget that.
 
Laloosh purchased his own AP. Laloosh is a known fly by night user. This time last year CPE was the worst company in the world, he pulled all his CPE s*** and sold it. Now CPE is the greatest thing sense sliced bread. He switches with the wind man and has lost almost all his forum respect. Just ask around.

He use to do good for the community, now I personally believe that the community is better off without him. He knows all and everyone else are idiots unless they agree with him. This includes people like Cobb and any other vendor he does not use.

He has a vested interest in CPE man. Don't forget that.


Laloosh actually got BANNED from this forum because of all the s*** he pulled with cp-e. Said it wouldn't hold a tune,blahblahblah...

I would hardly call a tune that was corresponded through emails "cobb's best".
The Standback and AP can tune all the same things, but the AP can also tune cam phasing a few other things... the standback cant tune more parameters than the AP is what I'm trying to say.
Laloosh told Christian what exactly he wanted it to do (have boost hit 20, taper to 17 or somethng, more timing advanced and a few other things) so christian did it, and laloosh was done. Christian could have kept going to get a more fine-tune and make more power, but he didnt.
Laloosh posted logs of 1/4 miles he did on the street, he said he had roughly the same et, but a slower trap, by about 3-4 mph. So that extra 40 hp isnt really doing that much. He says its all because of the traction and whatnot, but nobody really knows the truth. I guess he needs to go to the track and see how much different the times are.
He posted datalogs and in some parts of the run, there is considerably less timing on the accessport tune than on the standback tune.
He used meth on the standback tune, and not on the AP tune, Even the cooler boost temps alone would help quite a bit.
Laloosh has always talked s*** on cobb.
Laloosh used to talk massive s*** on cp-e.

All this proves is that a good tune makes more power than a not so good tune.
If I wanted, I could get christian to finetune a map for me, and I could go in and put as much care as Laloosh did on my standback tune as he did on his AP tune, and the power I make with the AP could blow the standback out of the water.

I do not believe any of the reasons I posted were crazy reasons, so dont even try to point at that. It's obvious in the way you talk you prefer cp-e. The fact is, both of these engine management solutions are really capable units, it's really hard to compare which one is better, they're targeted to a completely different audience right now, When the tuning software comes out, it'll be easier, but every aspect of the tune has to be similar between the two units. Laloosh's comparison wasn't really a fair comparison. He has a huge vested interest in a company he once hated, he hates the company he was comparing what he loves to, He didn't give cobb a fair chance, he ran meth on his standback tune. You are supposed to have 1 variable when you compare two things, and that 1 variable is the two different ems's. You're not supposed to compare 1 ems with no meth, with another ems with meth.
The fact is that the AP tune he dynoed wasnt as good as the tune on the standback,and that's that.
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjRXEJjijlM

I know the COBB fanboys are going to cry foul and make up some crazy reasons about how the moon alignment affected the hp number. Watch the video and make your own opinion.(spank)

no meth were run on either run as far as I know. It was just bolt ons with a custom tune on both the standback and AP. Basically putting the best of one tune against the best of another with the same car in the middle. CP-E wins

It makes me cringe listening to you talk. Seriously man, i am being as straight forward as possible, you know nothing about tuning/modifying a car. You should not be spreading misinformation on a public forum. Other morons read these threads as if they are scripture.



Now, how in gods name can you run a valid test between two products when all the other variables are not held constant?

Let me answer for you... YOU CAN'T. Laloosh was spraying meth with the standback run. He admitted to it on the other forum. I dont care if you think meth gives you 5 hp, 30 hp, or even lowers hp. The fact of the matter is the runs are not consistent. Spraying a chemical into the air flow is going to alter the tune, temperatures, etc.


Also, this comparison is completely bogus. What is he comparing? Peak power output? Thats absurd. You can easily take the standback, retard the timing ungodly amounts, and produce extremely low numbers. Then run that tune against an off the shelf map from Cobb and according to your logic, the Cobb AP is the better product since it will produce more power.


You cannot ever compare an off the shelf map to a dyno/street tuned map. The map laloosh ran with the AP was emailed to him from Christian. How in the world could Christian tune Laloosh's car to the best of his abilities if all he had are a few datalogs. With out the real time tuning, it wont ever be as aggressive as it can be. Since the end user can tune the standback, you have the ability to create more aggressive maps.

To say that the standback is better because it makes more power is so narrow-minded. Once Cobb releases the tuning software, the AP will give anyone the ability to tune as aggressive as they want.


The real question should be, which unit is more capable. You will never find an ecu more capable than a stock pcm. There are so many tables and correction factors you wouldnt even imagine. The stock ecu's are so powerful they can learn around piggyback units.

So, if the Cobb AP does have the ability to change the maps and tables in the stock ecu, then it is an ultimate tuning device. The stock ecu still retains control and it will read the new maps as if they were on the ecu from the factory.


A piggyback, such as the standback, will never have the capabilites the stock ecu has. Im not saying the standback is a POS, im not saying the standback will not work, what i am saying is that once the tuning software comes out for the AP, the Cobb unit would be the best way to go.


I can understand if you want to aggressively tune the car now, then you may look into a standback unit. Since Cobb does not offer do-it-yourself tuning currently, you are stuck with OTS maps. However, once the software is released, you will be able to tune anything you want with the AP. You will retain the stock correction factors and tables. These parameters will never be outdone by any standalone engine management, much less a dinky piggyback unit.
 
circle jerk alert.

I hope all you guys have made each other feel better but the posts in this thread are pathetic. It doesnt even matter what he made on the standback and meth... his cobb numbers sucked.

craighjr made 22more whp with less mods on his standback tune.

and 3 guys with APs there have contacted me about trading them in becuase they were either.....

racing and losing to cars with the same mods
flashing back to stock and gaining more power

wth is the point of a power mod that loses power, and takes 6 months of beta tuning to accomplish it. you guys are pathetic. this whole debate wouldnt rage on if it wasnt for the insistentence of a small segment of the ms3 community that continues to act as if Cobb has been martyred.

back to the bashing for you guys. its just too easy to blame plain results witnessed and experienced by 15 guys at a dyno day as a huge conspiracy all contrived by the evil laloosh....lol
 
i dont even own a ms3. so i am as unbiased as anyone can be. i have never purchased a cpe product, nor have i purchased a cobb product.

i still wouldnt expect you to understand. this simple logic is too difficult for someone like yourself.

once the software is released for the AP, it will be the most capable ems for the ms3. if you want to get the most power out of your car right now without a simple flash, then getting the standback seems like the best idea.

but that is not the argument you "CPE FAN BOYS" are making. you are claiming that the standback is a better unit than the cobb ap because it makes more power.

OTS maps suck compared to actually getting the car dyno/street tuned. NO s*** a custom map will make more power.

circle jerk alert.

I hope all you guys have made each other feel better but the posts in this thread are pathetic. It doesnt even matter what he made on the standback and meth... his cobb numbers sucked.

craighjr made 22more whp with less mods on his standback tune.

and 3 guys with APs there have contacted me about trading them in becuase they were either.....

racing and losing to cars with the same mods
flashing back to stock and gaining more power

wth is the point of a power mod that loses power, and takes 6 months of beta tuning to accomplish it. you guys are pathetic. this whole debate wouldnt rage on if it wasnt for the insistentence of a small segment of the ms3 community that continues to act as if Cobb has been martyred.

back to the bashing for you guys. its just too easy to blame plain results witnessed and experienced by 15 guys at a dyno day as a huge conspiracy all contrived by the evil laloosh....lol
 
i dont even own a ms3. so i am as unbiased as anyone can be. i have never purchased a cpe product, nor have i purchased a cobb product.

i still wouldnt expect you to understand. this simple logic is too difficult for someone like yourself.

once the software is released for the AP, it will be the most capable ems for the ms3. if you want to get the most power out of your car right now without a simple flash, then getting the standback seems like the best idea.

but that is not the argument you "CPE FAN BOYS" are making. you are claiming that the standback is a better unit than the cobb ap because it makes more power.

OTS maps suck compared to actually getting the car dyno/street tuned. NO s*** a custom map will make more power.

you ap guys keep talking about "once it comes out"... that s*** was supposed to be available OVER A YEAR AGO. ive had my car since winter 07 and it was supposed to all be available in summer 07. they released the AP a year late..... and then may, june, july, august, september, october, v100, v101,v102,v103.... and still stock cars are walking ap cars.

im missing your "simple logic". or maybe im just not as gullible as you. ive talked to them and they KNOW they have ****** the kitty on this thing. They tell a different story every time. and they aint as close as you think. hell it could be argued they are still where they started after 6 months.... beta testing.

And "us CPE boys"... are excited about all the 400whp cars we have now... now flashs.... and out flash tools and complete controls we'll have ALONG with the standback, probably sooner than Cobb if Cobb ever has it anyway.

yeah you heard it here first... cpe has a handheld inhouse flash tool NOW.

Either way... while you guys keep bellyaching im gonna keep running cpe. all the fastest ms3s in the country run cpe..... ALL OF THEM. And i was having this same argument a ******* year ago with stupid cobble cobble numbnuts, who are more interested in stitting on the fence, waiting , saving money..... for the good stuff. While ive been making numbers. At least now you actually give the standback credit for being able to "custom tune". before the AP was released i didnt even hear that.

i guess now that the standback has CRUSHED the ap in multiple comparos.... at least that has changed. The highest hp car in the country worked with christian for 2 ******* months before he dumped his AP, and signed on for sponsorship with CPE. the AP sucks. protunes dont work. it needs tons of work.

most of us will be on to new platforms bored with 500whp..... by the time all you "intellectual thinkers", have your "custom cobb tunes", to fit with your choice of intake and fmic....lol
 
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how incredibly immature are you?

im a cobb fan boy and im gullible? i dont even own a ms3.

my argument stays the same, once the software comes out, it will be a better solution than a piggyback system.

i do not work for cobb and i am not a spokesperson, so i have no clue when the software will be released.

since when is modding a car to rub the results in other peoples faces? i hope you dont raise your children with that sort of mentality...

"most of us will be on to new platforms bored with 500whp by the time your dumbass has your "custom cobb tune" to rub in our faces"

yet again you prove your immaturity....

What in the hell are you talking about, my "custom cobb tune" ????

I dont know if you got the memo, but Cobb is not and will not ever offer a tuning device for the protege.


Its simple as this, if you want to run an aggressive custom tuned map, then the AP is probably not for you (at this moment). However, for the people that do not want to get a custom tuned map and they are still looking for a safe and reliable tune, the accessport is a great option.

There is more to tuning than peak power.


The whole point of Laloosh's comparison was to show that the AP is a pos. That is why many people are pissed off.

you ap guys keep talking about "once it comes out"... that s*** was supposed to be available OVER A YEAR AGO. ive had my car since winter 07 and it was supposed to all be available in summer 07. they released the AP a year late..... and then may, june, july, august, september, october, v100, v101,v102,v103.... and still stock cars are walking ap cars.

im missing your "simple logic". or maybe im just not as gullible as you. ive talked to them and they KNOW they have ****** the kitty on this thing. They tell a different story every time. and they aint as close as you think. hell it could be argued they are still where they started after 6 months.... beta testing.

And "us CPE boys"... are excited about all the 400whp cars we have now... now flashs.... and out flash tools and complete controls we'll have ALONG with the standback, probably sooner than Cobb if Cobb ever has it anyway.

yeah you heard it here first... cpe has a inhouse flash tool NOW.

Either way... while you guys keep bellyaching im gonna keep running cpe. all the fastest ms3s in the country run cpe..... ALL OF THEM. And i was having this same argument a ******* year ago with stupid cobble cobble numbnuts, who are more interested in stitting on the fence, waiting , saving money..... for the good stuff. While ive been making numbers.

most of us will be on to new platforms bored with 500whp by the time your dumbass has your "custom cobb tune" to rub in our faces.
 
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