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AP vs Standback
- Thread starter Alexsered
- Start date
Chris post stated the facts.... dynos, videos, and witnesses.
All 15 guys involved were of agreement that the AP in its current state is a pos. your the hater and being immature to target him. if you dont agree with how his "personal" comparison was conducted than throw it out. it still doesnt address the utter failure of the other cars, and the success of the standback cars, and stock ecu cars that were also there.
you might as well say all 15 guys were in a conspiracy...lol
All 15 guys involved were of agreement that the AP in its current state is a pos. your the hater and being immature to target him. if you dont agree with how his "personal" comparison was conducted than throw it out. it still doesnt address the utter failure of the other cars, and the success of the standback cars, and stock ecu cars that were also there.
you might as well say all 15 guys were in a conspiracy...lol
Cant we all just get along?
its difficult to when adults act like 2 year olds.
clean up your post please.
all i got out of it was that you dont own a speed, im imature, your not a cobb fanboy, and something to do with proteges. was i close?
it was difficult to read.
yea thats exactly what i was getting act. good job addressing my points...(2thumbs)
Chris post stated the facts.... dynos, videos, and witnesses.
All 15 guys involved were of agreement that the AP in its current state is a pos. your the hater and being immature to target him. if you dont agree with how his "personal" comparison was conducted than throw it out. it still doesnt address the utter failure of the other cars, and the success of the standback cars, and stock ecu cars that were also there.
you might as well say all 15 guys were in a conspiracy...lol
im a hater? haha, lets grow up now and use big boy words. why wouldnt i target laloosh, wasnt he the one who ran the "test" ???
forget it, im done arguing with you. you dont understand what im saying. people can make their own decisions.
circle jerk alert.
I hope all you guys have made each other feel better but the posts in this thread are pathetic. It doesnt even matter what he made on the standback and meth... his cobb numbers sucked.
craighjr made 22more whp with less mods on his standback tune.
and 3 guys with APs there have contacted me about trading them in becuase they were either.....
racing and losing to cars with the same mods
flashing back to stock and gaining more power
wth is the point of a power mod that loses power, and takes 6 months of beta tuning to accomplish it. you guys are pathetic. this whole debate wouldnt rage on if it wasnt for the insistentence of a small segment of the ms3 community that continues to act as if Cobb has been martyred.
back to the bashing for you guys. its just too easy to blame plain results witnessed and experienced by 15 guys at a dyno day as a huge conspiracy all contrived by the evil laloosh....lol
Thats really the only point I was making, is that COBB's AP tune's have yet to hit their claimed HP. I don't care about companies, i care about the quality of the product, and I have to admit that I have been very dissappointed with COBB stuff. I don't know why everyone's on COBB's balls, get a life and get an opinion, just because COBB is successful with the EVO and STI doesn't mean they will make the best product for the speed3.
And for the guy that said I don't know anything about tunning and some crap like that, you sound like a typical COBB fanboy on COBB's balls. I buy and use the best product, I have not vested interest in any company PERIOD. So far, I found that even though CP-E is probably the most expensive product, but if I want a product that lasts, than CP-E so far has been the best. I'm not going to turn this thread into a CP-E VS COBB but I will say, when it comes to the small details, CP-E has impressed me more than anybody else.
im neither a cpe nor cobb product owner...
did laloosh indicate to cobb of his intentions... perhaps cobb would have had the opportunity to squeeze as much as they can...
im in agreement that its difficult to compare a conservative mail-in tune against a full tune... what were the afrs generated on each session...
did laloosh indicate to cobb of his intentions... perhaps cobb would have had the opportunity to squeeze as much as they can...
im in agreement that its difficult to compare a conservative mail-in tune against a full tune... what were the afrs generated on each session...
im neither a cpe nor cobb product owner...
did laloosh indicate to cobb of his intentions... perhaps cobb would have had the opportunity to squeeze as much as they can...
im in agreement that its difficult to compare a conservative mail-in tune against a full tune... what were the afrs generated on each session...
cobbs tune was not conservative.. they had 17 dgrees of timing added peak...12.o a/fs, and a boost target of 20psi!!!
christian had 7 back and forths with dashhawk logs and tweaks.... the same dashhawk that loosh uses to tune. now granted the AP is MUCH more difficult ot dial in than the standback.... and thats the point.
I would say that the AP software CANT dial in the car. I think it can make power with blind luck, but not traditionally. these v103 maps will make power on one car, and then another car, with the same mods exactly.... will lose power.
then everybody wants to talk about a protune... ok lets talk about it. Where are they? The last dyno I saw Tim Bailey(cobb protuner) he actaully DEtuned a car in comparison to a v103 map that the guy tried later. Whoosh worked with christian for 6 weeks and on the day he dynoed 386 with the cpe flash.... he dynoed in the 330s with a cobb protune... ******* 50 whp!!!! on a gt35 at 20psi. thats not generally known but, its the reason that hes now sponsored by CPE.
You guys act like Laloosh is so against the AP. He went out and bought one cause he wants power. Cobb knew he was going to be dynoing... they tried HARD to dial him in. they didnt know he was gonna compare with standback/meth.... but its irrelevent. throw the meth number out. he only made 287whp on the AP, and that is as disapppointing a number for a dynojet as we could have expected to see.
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the standback is unpredictable in variable weather.
and where the hell are the facts about whoosh using the AP, he never once mentioned it.
why don't you just hold up a big sign that says "**** ALL OTHER COMPANIES, CP-E IS THE BEST!"
if people listened to you then all these other companies should stop making parts and just let cp-e do it all.
and where the hell are the facts about whoosh using the AP, he never once mentioned it.
why don't you just hold up a big sign that says "**** ALL OTHER COMPANIES, CP-E IS THE BEST!"
if people listened to you then all these other companies should stop making parts and just let cp-e do it all.
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cobbs tune was not conservative.. they had 17 dgrees of timing added peak...12.o a/fs, and a boost target of 20psi!!!
christian had 7 back and forths with dashhawk logs and tweaks.... the same dashhawk that loosh uses to tune. now granted the AP is MUCH more difficult ot dial in than the standback.... and thats the point.
I would say that the AP software CANT dial in the car. I think it can make power with blind luck, but not traditionally. these v103 maps will make power on one car, and then another car, with the same mods exactly.... will lose power.
then everybody wants to talk about a protune... ok lets talk about it. Where are they? The last dyno I saw Tim Bailey(cobb protuner) he actaully DEtuned a car in comparison to a v103 map that the guy tried later. Whoosh worked with christian for 6 weeks and on the day he dynoed 386 with the fcf.... he dynoed in the 330s with a cobb protune... ******* 50 whp!!!! on a gt35 at 20psi. thats not generally known but, its the reason that hes now sponsored by CPE.
You guys act like Laloosh is so against the AP. He went out and bought one cause he wants power. Cobb knew he was going to be dynoing... they tried HARD to dial him in. they didnt know he was gonna compare with standback/meth.... but its irrelevent. throw the meth number out. he only made 287whp on the AP, and that is as disapppointing a number for a dynojet as we could have expected to see.
Well said.
I just don't understand why people can't reasonable decisions for themselves. They assume COBB is going to make the best product for their car and than they get on COBB's balls and dont even look at other brands. I did alot research in the products I bought, considering most of them are not bolted on, but I would have bought COBB hands down if they were the best. Thats all I'm saying. And I hate there tunning solution, letting somebody make a generic tune and I have to use it? And the whole flash thing really gets on my nerves.
the standback is unpredictable in variable weather.
and where the hell are the facts about whoosh using the AP, he never once mentioned it.
why don't you just hold up a big sign that says "**** ALL OTHER COMPANIES, CP-E IS THE BEST!"
if people listened to you then all these other companies should stop making parts and just let cp-e do it all.
you have it all wrong, I'm trying to let people know that there are other companies other than COBB and they actually DO make better products.
Lol, standback is unpredictable in variable weather???? Our cars are unpredictable in variable weather, the AP isn't any better.
at least the AP is a flash allowing the computer to do the work. you'd have to have different tunes for different weather with the standback and any standback guy will tell you that.
and i wasn't talking to you when i was saying about cp-e i was talking about #1 fanboy palerider.
i have the AP for my speed6 and its 10 times better than stock. and most other speed6 owners will tell you the same, guess we don't have the problems the speed3 guys do.
and once the tuning software is out we'll see what happens.
i enjoy see all the competition for parts as i am not loyal to any one company. what pisses me off is when people come off trying to destroy a company that is trying to do something for this car. they cried when they didn't and now that they are and its not good enough they cry some more. give it time its still a beta, unless you don't understand what beta means.
and i wasn't talking to you when i was saying about cp-e i was talking about #1 fanboy palerider.
i have the AP for my speed6 and its 10 times better than stock. and most other speed6 owners will tell you the same, guess we don't have the problems the speed3 guys do.
and once the tuning software is out we'll see what happens.
i enjoy see all the competition for parts as i am not loyal to any one company. what pisses me off is when people come off trying to destroy a company that is trying to do something for this car. they cried when they didn't and now that they are and its not good enough they cry some more. give it time its still a beta, unless you don't understand what beta means.
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the standback is unpredictable in variable weather.
and where the hell are the facts about whoosh using the AP, he never once mentioned it.
why don't you just hold up a big sign that says "**** ALL OTHER COMPANIES, CP-E IS THE BEST!"
if people listened to you then all these other companies should stop making parts and just let cp-e do it all.
whoosh has chosen to keep it silent.... haltech told me about it. ron even denied it to me... i dont understand his reasoning. probably because he didnt want to trash his reputation the same way chris has, by going public. its you ap guys that ******* try to destroy people.
as far as me and "all these other companies".... its not. its me and cobb. i feel theyve been unethical, and the egg on their face is deserved. back in May, when i was running the standback and they were gonna release the AP, christian contacted me and for several weeks we had private dialogues about the AP. they even set up a protune day 30 minutes from me, that was canceled when my motor blew.
I have emails where Chritian was specifically targeting piggybacks to me and saying how its a flawed way to tune.... and dangerous. when cpe heard about it all they flew off the handle and offered me formal sponsorship. i turned it down then but the way cobb went about pursuing me, in retrospect, was very upsetting.
they had a SPECIFIC business plan before the AP was released and it was to turn the market from piggys. they even targeted the fcf before it was released and mocked it with their own flawed dynos, and flawed "throttle control". Cobb TARGETED cpe... not the other way around. christian would call me at work and hold for 15 minutes until i could break free... then want me to give impressions on posts he was about to make on m3fs that portrayed piggys in a bad light. my employees were like wtf....who IS this guy. back then i was on the fence and didnt know what i was gonna do... but again in retrospect.... it was pretty damn disusting how they tried to make this go down.
now that that the ap has flopped so bad, we dont hear about how lousy piggy tuning is anymore. the reasons are obvious
they should have just released a product that works and let the public decide... instead they attempted a slash and burn marketing attempt against cpe, and then released crap. there is so much to this story you guys dont know.... but it is why the hate on both sides is as strong as it is.
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ok well thanks for sharing that. i do agree with you on the fact that they should have released something worth while. the other thing i don't really like is that there are so many people testing it with so many different mods. i am however willing to let them have a chance. i've owned the cp-e standback with pnp harness and it just never worked for me the way i wanted and then the fact i would have had to go and pay for the fcf on top of that, i just don't have that kind of cash to throw around so i figured i'd give the AP a chance. i'm all up for trying different things. i can honestly say i've changed different parts several times to find the ones i like. if the AP doesn't work out then maybe i'll go back to the standback, but i like trying out new things.
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ok well thanks for sharing that. i do agree with you on the fact that they should have released something worth while. the other thing i don't really like is that there are so many people testing it with so many different mods. i am however willing to let them have a chance. i've owned the cp-e standback with pnp harness and it just never worked for me the way i wanted and then the fact i would have had to go and pay for the fcf on top of that, i just don't have that kind of cash to throw around so i figured i'd give the AP a chance. i'm all up for trying different things. i can honestly say i've changed different parts several times to find the ones i like. if the AP doesn't work out then maybe i'll go back to the standback, but i like trying out new things.
look man... i actually agree with you here. for the average consumer they would want the AP to work as advertised. there is just a select few guys that know "the whole story".... between cpe and cobb, and it burns their ass. thats why there is so much heat surrounding this.
i even attempted to reach out to cobb on cpes behalf. cpe is a small company... they wanted to work together and even would MAKE PARTS for cobb if given the chance. i had emails directly with trey and they wanted nothing to do with this despite giving josh@cpe the impression that they would last year at sema.
cobb has no problem with how this is all going down. the only thing they didnt count on was the fact they werent gonna make a product that dominated the market. this would have never happened this way if the AP had worked 6 months ago.... cpe would be using the standback as firewood if the AP business plan in SLC had gone down as they intended.
its been happy times at cpe to just sit at the table with Cobb tuning considering what was on the line back in may and how its all gone down since.
it sucks it didn't work with the ms3 as planned, well at least not for everyone, but it seems us speed6 guys are having much better luck, despite how you said ron did not. and like i said i don't have beef with cp-e its just sometimes how all you cp-e guys come across you can really irritate some people and then instead of trying to help the situation it starts into a battle. now had all this comparing been done in a better manner and presented differently i think the topic could have stayed under control more. but i guess with anything you'll have heated battles so i'll just walk away from this one.
look man... i actually agree with you here. for the average consumer they would want the AP to work as advertised. there is just a select few guys that know "the whole story".... between cpe and cobb, and it burns their ass. thats why there is so much heat surrounding this.
i even attempted to reach out to cobb on cpes behalf. cpe is a small company... they wanted to work together and even would MAKE PARTS for cobb if given the chance. i had emails directly with trey and they wanted nothing to do with this despite giving josh@cpe the impression that they would last year at sema.
cobb has no problem with how this is all going down. the only thing they didnt count on was the fact they werent gonna make a product that dominated the market. this would have never happened this way if the AP had worked 6 months ago.... cpe would be using the standback as firewood if the AP business plan in SLC had gone down as they intended.
its been happy times at cpe to just sit at the table with Cobb tuning considering what was on the line back in may and how its all gone down since.
Another thing I noticed, is that I doubt COBB is going to spend $$$$ or R&D for a car that is being discountinued after 2009. Why do you think they are going to push for a tunning solution that people can do themselves, like some software to tune the AP yourself, because they pretty much will be finished with the speed3.
Where as a company like CP-E gave us the option to tune our cars ourselves from the beggining.
I know alot about what you are talking about Pale, and that is one reason I have a problem with COBB. Bad business ethics will always come back to bite a business, and if you don't believe me, just looks at all the companies that have went bankrupt because of bad business ethics.
People know so little, and that is kind of sad.
ok last thing....cobb is pushing for a tunning solution people can do themselves because most people want to. they have the street tuner software out for subies so it only makes sense for them to have it for mazdas. i believe it will be out but they are finallizing the firmware for the speed3 and speed6 and then they'll revise the software so it can then be used to tune our cars.
numbnuts22715
Member
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- 2008 Mazdaspeed 3 GT
Another thing I noticed, is that I doubt COBB is going to spend $$$$ or R&D for a car that is being discountinued after 2009. Why do you think they are going to push for a tunning solution that people can do themselves, like some software to tune the AP yourself, because they pretty much will be finished with the speed3.
Where as a company like CP-E gave us the option to tune our cars ourselves from the beggining.
I know alot about what you are talking about Pale, and that is one reason I have a problem with COBB. Bad business ethics will always come back to bite a business, and if you don't believe me, just looks at all the companies that have went bankrupt because of bad business ethics.
People know so little, and that is kind of sad.
The reason why theyre offering a tuning solution later is because thats the way they do it. They do it on the subarus, the mitsu's, everything. It takes time to write software for the AP.
Lol, talking about people knowing so little... people are so ******* hypocritical these days.
and how many beta versions of software have you used that have all the kinks fully ironed out of them? thats why its called a beta. the standback has been around for about 2 years now, i sure hope its working great by this point. i mean its already on its 2nd version heading for its 3rd. i'm sure there were a lot of dissapointed standback users at first too, cough *laloosh* cough cough.
The reason why theyre offering a tuning solution later is because thats the way they do it. They do it on the subarus, the mitsu's, everything. It takes time to write software for the AP.
Lol, talking about people knowing so little... people are so ******* hypocritical these days.
if they can make a plateform like an AP, the the design framework for software that everyone can use is very very very easy to set up. And I know they already have it for subies and evos, so it should make it already even easier. It is just their way of making more money, and you are foolish to think otherwise.
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