Possible Tranny or diff issue on used P5?

[MXMike]

I'm in the market for a P5 and thought I had found a nice 2003 SE for sale (private seller). The car is an auto (tiptronic) and has 84000 miles on it (136000 km). Everything looked good and I agreed to a price conditional on an inspection. Took the car to the local Mazda dealer today to get inspected and got some bad news, but I'm not totally sure what to make of it.

First of all the mechanic found some transmission fluid leaking, but couldn't identify the source of the leak. He also pointed out the fluid is pretty dark.

During the test drive, he noted that the "transmission makes noise on deceleration, possible diff out of adjustment". A separate note says "differential noise heard when coasting downhill". He told me that as soon as he touched the gas, the noise would go away.

He made it clear that this would likely lead to big tranny problems, but he couldn't give me a clear idea of exactly what the problem is or how much it would cost to repair. Another mechanic at the shop said it would probably need a new tranny. Everything else, engine, body, etc all looked to be in great condition.

My main questions are:

1. What could be wrong that would cause such a noise only while decelerating or coasting down a hill? Could it be from the tranny or diff gears or both? Could it simply be a symptom of low fluid?

2. Aren't the tranny and diff separately serviceable components? If it is a diff noise, is it likely that the whole tranny would have to be replaced?

3. If it were to need a new tranny, about how much am I looking at?


After telling the seller what they discovered, he figured it probably only needs the tranny fluid changed and the leak dealt with, and possibly the diff adjusted (is that even possible?), noting that it shifts great, doesn't hesitate, or have any noticeable performance problems. He seems motivated to sell it and wants me to make another offer. The problem is, I'm not sure how much lower an offer I should make, if any at all. If there is a chance that all it needs is a fluid change and seal replaced, than I'd be happy to take it as is, but on the other hand I don't want to take a chance on it if the tranny could blow in the near future. I'm thinking I'll make one more offer based on the wost case scenario, but I still have no idea what that might be. Thanks a lot for any insight.

 

[Captain KRM P5]

1. What could be wrong that would cause such a noise only while decelerating or coasting down a hill? Could it be from the tranny or diff gears or both? Could it simply be a symptom of low fluid?

2. Aren't the tranny and diff separately serviceable components? If it is a diff noise, is it likely that the whole tranny would have to be replaced?

3. If it were to need a new tranny, about how much am I looking at?

1. Changing the fluid might make things better, but I would bet not at this point. these were not the strongest automatic transmissions in the world, and while not horrible they do not take misuse, abuse or neglect very well.

2. Mazda typically replaced the entire transmission for warranty work, they did not do rebuilds 99% of the time.

3. New from a dealer? About $5000 for the part alone. If you are looking to save money you could snag a used one for half that or less.

 

[FightClubTheory]

In regards to that tranny/diff noise that occurs upon deceleration, I believe I might have the same problem.

As I just bought my '02 Protege5 used, I've yet to have it looked at further than a typical check-up you'd get at a place like Firestone, but am going to change the fluids soon - tranny flush included. If it helps with this mystery noise, I'll definitely let you know. I'm also taking it in soon for a complete checkup with my mechanic, so I'll definitely bring it up to him and see if I have your problem and what his opinion is, should the above not have solved the issue. Again, I don't know if we even have the same problem, as I recall only hearing it twice or so and not thinking much of it until reading your post.

If you were able to hear the noise, could you describe it?
Was it a slight, declining, humming sound (not coming from the engine of course, lol)?

 

[MXMike]

Thanks for your replies, I've decided to walk away from this one. Because the rest of the car looked to be in great shape and the asking price was better than anything else I've found in a while, I thought it might still be worth considering even if there were to be tranny repairs in the future. But I don't want to take the risk so I'm going to keep looking. Hopefully I find a better Protege5 soon.

 

[pasadena_commut]

First of all the mechanic found some transmission fluid leaking, but couldn't identify the source of the leak. He also pointed out the fluid is pretty dark.

That doesn't sound good. Was the level low?

During the test drive, he noted that the "transmission makes noise on deceleration, possible diff out of adjustment". A separate note says "differential noise heard when coasting downhill". He told me that as soon as he touched the gas, the noise would go away.

What was the sound like, both "on deceleration" and "coasting downhill"? I don't understand why the differential would care if he was on the gas or not. (And how do you "adjust" a differential anyway???) On the other hand, the torque converter might act like that, and it would respond pretty much instantly to the gas pedal. My P5 makes a (not very loud) sound kind of like a turbine when I come off the gas below 40. (It might do it above 40 too, but the car is so noisy I can't hear it over the tire roar.) It's well correlated with the RPMs blipping upward slightly at the same time. No way that is a differential sound - the speed of the differential is barely changing. I'm pretty sure that what I'm hearing is just the sound of the torque converter spinning up (the parts relative to each other) when the TC lock is released. If that's what you were hearing, take the car up to 40, keeping your foot lightly on the gas, let it slow down. Somewhere in the mid to low 30s the TC will unlock even with your foot lightly on the gas, and the RPMs will briefly blip upwards and a slight whine may be heard.

Most cars make slightly odd noises when coasting down hill. The motor is being driven by the force from the rear wheels through the transmission, and I've never had a car where that sounded at all like normal driving.

 

[pasadena_commut]

Thanks for your replies, I've decided to walk away from this one. Because the rest of the car looked to be in great shape and the asking price was better than anything else I've found in a while, I thought it might still be worth considering even if there were to be tranny repairs in the future. But I don't want to take the risk so I'm going to keep looking. Hopefully I find a better Protege5 soon.

You really want the manual P5 in any case. The auto gives pretty crappy gas mileage in the city, only around 21-22 MPG.

 

[mainmazda]

dont if its a good deal

Thanks for your replies, I've decided to walk away from this one. Because the rest of the car looked to be in great shape and the asking price was better than anything else I've found in a while, I thought it might still be worth considering even if there were to be tranny repairs in the future. But I don't want to take the risk so I'm going to keep looking. Hopefully I find a better Protege5 soon.

if its indead way less than what others are asking and if you can stand the noise for some time then I say go for it. example: if others are asking 15 and you can get it for say 11 then I say why not. whatever the problem is it could be fixed if you are willing to have the work done. plus if you have it fixed then you know it will last you for years to come. I recommend picking it up and fixing the problem and get it back to spec that way you know its been done. other wise you will buy another P5 that will not show this problem untill some time down the road.
Just my opinion. I purchased a P5 for way less than what others are asking and I just fixed it up and now I got a nice smoothe ride with one less problem

Good luck with whatever you decide to do

 

[mainmazda]

not if you live in a hilly place

You really want the manual P5 in any case. The auto gives pretty crappy gas mileage in the city, only around 21-22 MPG.

yeah but if you live in a mountanous place then standard is not what you want unless you like to replace the clutch every other year

 

[pasadena_commut]

yeah but if you live in a mountanous place then standard is not what you want unless you like to replace the clutch every other year

Well, sure, there are exceptions. Driving a manual around the hilly parts of San Francisco in heavy traffic is really no fun at all. However, assuming less challenging terrain, the manual is the better transmission to have.

 

[P-Funk!]

I agree - don't buy the car. Way better ones out there that have been better maintained....

 

[MXMike]

Well, I found another 2003 P5. This one is a manual with lower mileage, a few less options, and a lower asking price. Got this one checked out at a garage too and didn't find anything major wrong with it, so my girlfriend is now the proud new owner! (It's really her car, I've just been helping her buy it ). We're quite happy now that we walked away from the first one. Thanks again for the advice, these forums have already been quite helpful and I'm sure I'll be contributing here regularly now that I'm a (part) owner.

 

[jeg0024]

Better be careful with buying girls cars... lol.

 

[MXMike]

Better be careful with buying girls cars... lol.

I didn't buy it for her , she paid for it herself (lol2) . I just helped her find a good one, and I plan on using it from time to time (we do live together) when I need something bigger than my MX-6.

 

[jeg0024]

Well as long as she paid for it and its paid off thats cool. I got stuck being out $15k when I signed as co-owner on a Jeep. But thats neither here or now so... Welcome!

 

[mainmazda]

good for you (her)
you need to be happy with what you purchase. if the options arent that important to you then you will find something cheaper. Me I dont mind paying extra for options if thats what I want