Racing Cosmic Blue Mazdaspeed 3 nailed by Hummer and kills both in Mazda.

[Bravnik]

lc, don't get so riled up... unfortunately, people need someone to blame. It makes it easier to deal with if someone pays for mistakes (whether they are their own mistakes or not). The kid is dead, so society can't call for justice against him. Society then turns their attention to the parents.

"Wait, what's that? His dad is a race car driver? Really? Well, the Parents must be held accountable then. His dad must be the one who taught him that. Break out the nousse boys, or perhaps some wood and a stake"
/sarcasm

I guess it makes it easier to sleep at night, under the false pretense that justice has been served and things like this won't happen to me and my family. NIMB!

I don't need to blame anyone to sleep better at night. It does not take a rocket scientist to figure out that no parent in their right mind should give any child a 240+HP car as their first car and pray they don't kill themselves.

I'm not saying every 16year old will wreck their car and die. I'm simply saying that its 100% irresponsible for any parent to give their young teenager a 240HP car to play with.

I don't understand where people like yourself fail to see common sense. Can a 16 year old drive or should they? Sure. But is a parent being responsible by buying their kid a car that promotes speeding/racing/driving crazy? I mean its not like its a Volvo known for its safety, its a MS3 that was made to do one thing....go the fastest it can for its class.

I'm not blaming any 16 year old for driving. I'm blaming the parents of the 16 year olds that buy them a fast car only to bury them. I can guarantee they stare in the mirror and blame themselves for buying the car for them after they put them in the ground.

So when you quote me make sure you do it right. I don't blame the kids for driving or wanting a fast car. I blame the idiot parents that buy them for them then wonder what went wrong when they end up killing themselves or others.

Your parents would never buy you a GSX1300R as the first Motorcycle you ever owned. Your first car should be no different as you can easly kill yourself in a Civic so why would you want to give a Child a car thats 3 times as powerful? Stupid, Ignorant and Irresponsible. Sorry if you don't agree.

Edit: Oh and I notice that your Dad got you a 85 Escort in 95 and not an RX7. Smart Man and I give him props because his son doesn't seem to be very responsible 13 years later

 

[CX-7owner]

Actually the same chassis underpins the Volvo S40, and it's pretty safe considering the full complement of airbags, and structural rigidity. My CX-7 has more than 240HP and I manage to be a safe teen, but according to most in this thread I don't have much time.

 

[lc_MS3]

I don't need to blame anyone to sleep better at night. It does not take a rocket scientist to figure out that no parent in their right mind should give any child a 240+HP car as their first car and pray they don't kill themselves.

I'm not saying every 16year old will wreck their car and die. I'm simply saying that its 100% irresponsible for any parent to give their young teenager a 240HP car to play with.

I don't understand where people like yourself fail to see common sense. Can a 16 year old drive or should they? Sure. But is a parent being responsible by buying their kid a car that promotes speeding/racing/driving crazy? I mean its not like its a Volvo known for its safety, its a MS3 that was made to do one thing....go the fastest it can for its class.

I'm not blaming any 16 year old for driving. I'm blaming the parents of the 16 year olds that buy them a fast car only to bury them. I can guarantee they stare in the mirror and blame themselves for buying the car for them after they put them in the ground.

So when you quote me make sure you do it right. I don't blame the kids for driving or wanting a fast car. I blame the idiot parents that buy them for them then wonder what went wrong when they end up killing themselves or others.

Your parents would never buy you a GSX1300R as the first Motorcycle you ever owned. Your first car should be no different as you can easly kill yourself in a Civic so why would you want to give a Child a car thats 3 times as powerful? Stupid, Ignorant and Irresponsible. Sorry if you don't agree.

What about the parents who buy their kids v8 trucks??? Those have 240+hp and they are fine?(dunno) EACH KID IS DIFFERENT. AS ARE PARENTS. YOU MAY NOT SEE EYE-TO-EYE WITH MY PARENTS, BECAUSE YOU WERE RAISED DIFFERENTLY. STOP saying all kids are irresponsible. It is not a true fact. NOR is it a fact that kids with faster cars get into more accidents then kids with slower cars.

 

[icespeed]

That's just moronic. Thanks for the debate, but I'm out since there is no convincing you that a car with less capabilites CAN influence the chances you take when driving.

If you don't mind, I'd like to jump in this one. I can understand your point. However, I personally feel that if I couldn't pass a car driving my first car ('85 escort), I sure as hell woudn't attempt it in a MS3. It means there wasn't enough room with the oncoming car to begin with. This view isn't because I'm older and wiser, I've always felt this way.

I've only had one time that I would consider a close call in this scenario. It was actually because the jerk I was trying to pass decided to speed up and not let me. They were dashed yellow lines, so legally I was entitled to over take the car (for the record, lol). I honestly didn't think I was gonna make it and it was too late for me to slam on my brakes and get back behind him. I ended up having to cut him off by inches. Ofcourse I then proceeded to slam on my brakes, flash my hazards and give him the bird.

When over taking a car by going into oncoming traffic, you have to calculate alot of different things before actually going through with it. I always calculate that I have one car length between me and the car I'm taking over before I come back over to the correct lane. Any more than one car length is a bonus. Once I finally decide to go for it, I slam on the gas and go as fast as possible. From 55 mph, my escort could get up to ~75. My 99 protege could get up to about 90, my msp could get up to 100. In all of those cars, I would be a good 6 to 7 car lengths ahead of the over taken car before the oncoming traffic actually "caught up".

So while I can rationalize your point and appreciate it, the type of cars I have driven never effected my awareness of what was a "safe" distance to attempt this type of passing.

 

[Bravnik]

Actually the same chassis underpins the Volvo S40, and it's pretty safe considering the full complement of airbags, and structural rigidity. My CX-7 has more than 240HP and I manage to be a safe teen, but according to most in this thread I don't have much time.

You have a CX7. Its a SUV and Not Fast but enough power to keep you out of trouble as well as in. Its not a bad choice for a kid. Its not like you're going to be racing the EVO's in your area anytime soon. It's not an MS3.

 

[Betelgeuse]

It is fast but its not "in a class of its own". And once again thank you for agreeing.

Price wise it is in the same class as a GTI or Civic SI but performance wise (stock for stock) it's in a different league. It's in the 350z, mustang GT territory in terms of speed.

 

[CantCMe]

A mistake by the teen not the car.

Yeah, the teens put the keys in the car. Yeah, the parents bought the car. And yeah, the teens crashed. But I feel the parents shouldn't have bought them a car period.

 

[Bravnik]

What about the parents who buy their kids v8 trucks??? Those have 240+hp and they are fine?(dunno) EACH KID IS DIFFERENT. AS ARE PARENTS. YOU MAY NOT SEE EYE-TO-EYE WITH MY PARENTS, BECAUSE YOU WERE RAISED DIFFERENTLY. STOP saying all kids are irresponsible. It is not a true fact. NOR is it a fact that kids with faster cars get into more accidents then kids with slower cars.

Ok I will bite. Its a TRUCK. 240HP but weighs 5k lbs and is not what I would call a fast car. Sure you can race it much like you can race a base Civic. BUT you're not going to go 0-60 in under 6secs and 107 in the 1/4 in a damn truck. Use some common sense and stop trying to defend your parents who failed to use any Common Sense and purchased you a MS3.

I'm not saying anything will happen to you. You could live to be 100 for all I know. Your parents buying you a fast car is totally unnecessary and irresponsable at the age of 16 and just about every parent with any common sense in the world will agree.

And please....I didn't call you irresponsible...I called your parent irresponsable.

 

[CX-7owner]

You have a CX7. Its a SUV and Not Fast but enough power to keep you out of trouble as well as in. Its not a bad choice for a kid. Its not like you're going to be racing the EVO's in your area anytime soon. It's not an MS3.

But it has 240HP, less with drivetrain loss but it get's up and goes with the mods.

 

[Betelgeuse]

If you don't mind, I'd like to jump in this one. I can understand your point. However, I personally feel that if I couldn't pass a car driving my first car ('85 escort), I sure as hell woudn't attempt it in a MS3. It means there wasn't enough room with the oncoming car to begin with. This view isn't because I'm older and wiser, I've always felt this way.

Ok I will say with surety that I have passed cars in situations in my ms3 that I wouldn't have attempted with my mazda 6s. The ms3 is that much quicker and instills that much confidence. The braking, handling and acceleration are excellent. Just curious, have you driven one? Or if you have, did you romp on it?

 

[CX-7owner]

++ Also, a friend got a ticket in my CX-7 for 67 in a 45(considering how adequate the power is, according to you I have to mention it), irresponsible yes, but it really doesn't matter what you're in or how much HP it has because it will get up to 67 in most cases.

 

[Bravnik]

But it has 240HP, less with drivetrain loss but it get's up and goes with the mods.

OMG Kids. Ok it has 240HP. It's not fast. Sorry. How much does it weigh? How much drivetrain loss? Could you do 0-60 in under 6 secs? Could you do 13 sec in 1/4 stock?

I don't think so. You drive a modern day Soccer Mom car. Its big, safe and SLOW! A good choice for a kid.

Look on the bright side, you have plenty of room in the back for your dates. But don't go getting all excited about 240HP in your CX7. It's not fast. Sorry.

 

[Betelgeuse]

again, if u pass 3 cars or 1 car and cross the line into oncoming traffic. How does the car matter. It doesnt, He mad a bad call just like you said and its not the first time. Cars don't give a false sense of what they can do, inexperience does.

So you're saying passing one car and quickly getting back in lane isn't any different than trying to pass 3?

The sports car goes 25mph just like everyone else.

This is true but a more mature person would more likely drive it responsibly.

Does it matter if u use a sniper rifle to kill someone from 100 yards or a rusty revolver up close? No, your still making the call to kill someone.

True but shooting someone with a magnum 45 will do more damage (on average) than a 22.

 

[CX-7owner]

OMG Kids. Ok it has 240HP. It's not fast. Sorry. How much does it weigh? How much drivetrain loss? Could you do 0-60 in under 6 secs? Could you do 13 sec in 1/4 stock?

I don't think so. You drive a modern day Soccer Mom car. Its big, safe and SLOW! A good choice for a kid.

Look on the bright side, you have plenty of room in the back for your dates. But don't go getting all excited about 240HP in your CX7. It's not fast. Sorry.

OMG neither is the FWD MS3, if you can shift OK it's a 6 second car, it's not fast, it's quick. My CX-7 is a second slower.

 

[SeminoleMan]

Ok I will say with surety that I have passed cars in situations in my ms3 that I wouldn't have attempted with my mazda 6s. The ms3 is that much quicker and instills that much confidence. The braking, handling and acceleration are excellent. Just curious, have you driven one? Or if you have, did you romp on it?

And this is the point I was making...thanks.

 

[Bravnik]

Ok I will say with surety that I have passed cars in situations in my ms3 that I wouldn't have attempted with my mazda 6s. The ms3 is that much quicker and instills that much confidence. The braking, handling and acceleration are excellent. Just curious, have you driven one? Or if you have, did you romp on it?

And so has Ice I assure you. I find it hard to believe he typed that with a straight face. Of course you take into consideration the Car you're in. Power gives confidence and shortens the distance of what is safe and what is not. Experience dictates all.

My wife has a Ford Explorer and has never had a fast car. She drives like a granny at 44 in it. I purchased a 2007 RX8 or her. You should see the differance in the way she drives it. Its Night and Day.

The car does not make any differance:bs:

 

[Betelgeuse]

Ok, if you insist....

Survival of the fittest. Deny the trends. Look at the numbers and understand that there is room for interperetations. For example: taken from the website you posted (http://www.rmiia.org/Auto/Teens/Teen_Driving_Statistics.htm):

"16-year-olds are three times more likely to die in a motor vehicle crash than the average of all drivers."

That word "average" is a very important word. It doesn't say that they are three times more likely to die than all others. Hell for all I know, from this specific line, 43 year olds die more often than 16 year olds in a car crash. Interperetation is vital.

To me? yeah it sucks this kid died. It sucked last year when a guy from our car club down here died. It sucks everytime that someone dies. Regardless of reckless behaviour, old age, over dose, heart attack.. .anything. But, such is life. Who am I to say that someone deserves death? Who am I to say that someone deserves life? It is what it is. People die. Regarless of "what-could-have-beens", the fact remains that people die. So be it. If we completely abolished teenagers driving, teenagers would still die in car accidents. Whether they did so illegally, or whether they were in the car with an adult driving, it changes nothing... .everyone dies.

I don't think I'm righteous enough to toot my horn and say that I have the power to save another person's life. I'm not a doctor. I don't have a self-satisfying urge to preach to everyone about what they should and should not do, based on the statistics that other people have presented me with.

The individual is, and has always been, more important to me. You can talk with an individual, know them, care for them, help them understand that death comes in ten thousand forms, not just from driving. Can I save them? I'm sorry, but that's not my purpose. Does it hurt when someone I know/care for dies? Sure it does. I'm human. But it doesn't change the fact that they died. So why cry over spilled milk? Therefore, hey, shoe happens. What's done is done.

Survival of the fittest.

Well have you thought about the fact that you might be saving yourself or a loved one? I mean if 'just let it be' is your solution then you've pretty much answered my question and have chosen a side.

 

[Bravnik]

OMG neither is the FWD MS3, if you can shift OK it's a 6 second car, it's not fast, it's quick. My CX-7 is a second slower.

The MS3 is a 13sec car in the 1/4. By todays standards its fast. $500 and your into the 12's which is even faster.

There are not too many production cars under 30k that can hit 12's. Can your Cx-7? LOL

Sorry, Soccer Mom's car all the way man.

 

[CantCMe]

I have a hard time believing that the father didn't know what the MS3 was.

When my pops first started allowing me to drive, it was in his bimmer. Sure it wasn't the fastest of cars, but it was still pretty quick. He made me follow rules.

Rule #1: No food or drinks in the car. When you get behind the wheel, you are there for driving. If you ever get in an accident and there was food in the car, pray for the worst, because you will not want to deal with me after.

Rule #2: Always know your surroundings. People are idiots and you have to expect the unexpected with them. If you ever get in an accident because you weren't paying attention, pray for the worst, because you will not want to deal with me after.

Rule #3: Know your car inside and out. Know how it brakes, know how it accellerates. Know how it takes a turn. If you ever roll the bimmer doing 45 in a right turn, pray for the worst, because you will not want to deal with me after.

Rule #4: Never, ever take a passenger's word that the coast is clear. Even if it is me (my dad) or your mom. Always check a second time. If you ever get an accident because you were listening to someone else, pray for the worst, because you will not want to deal with me after.

Rule #5: The left lane is for passing only. If there are no cars on the right, then you better be.

Rule #6: If you have to speed, always speed in the right lane. The cops never suspect it. If you are ever caught speeding, you better take care of it before I (my dad) find out.

Rule #7: If you are ever arrested for DUI, you better use the quarter to call the morgue and make arrangements.

Then, when I got my first car (1985 ford escort, in '95), he took me to an empty parking lot and made sure I knew what a 10mph impact felt like. Then he brake checked me right after because he saw I wasn't wearing my seatbelt. Then we ended up doing donuts so I knew how to use the E-brake properly.

I've still maxed out my number of driving schools I can go to in the State of Florida. I've been in a few accidents. I have countless tickets. I've been to the Insurance forgiveness courses. Generally speaking, he taught me "proper" ways to drive. Is it his fault if I were to get in an accident like this one? Of course not. Hell, I was more afraid of my pops than any bodily damage from a car crash!

Your father is a smart man...but their are people out here that don't know the difference between a regular 3 and a Speed 3(dunno). We happen to know the difference and/or do the research before we make a purchase like that.

 

[icespeed]

I don't need to blame anyone to sleep better at night. It does not take a rocket scientist to figure out that no parent in their right mind should give any child a 240+HP car as their first car and pray they don't kill themselves.

I'm not saying every 16year old will wreck their car and die. I'm simply saying that its 100% irresponsible for any parent to give their young teenager a 240HP car to play with.

I don't understand where people like yourself fail to see common sense. Can a 16 year old drive or should they? Sure. But is a parent being responsible by buying their kid a car that promotes speeding/racing/driving crazy? I mean its not like its a Volvo known for its safety, its a MS3 that was made to do one thing....go the fastest it can for its class.

I'm not blaming any 16 year old for driving. I'm blaming the parents of the 16 year olds that buy them a fast car only to bury them. I can guarantee they stare in the mirror and blame themselves for buying the car for them after they put them in the ground.

So when you quote me make sure you do it right. I don't blame the kids for driving or wanting a fast car. I blame the idiot parents that buy them for them then wonder what went wrong when they end up killing themselves or others.

Your parents would never buy you a GSX1300R as the first Motorcycle you ever owned. Your first car should be no different as you can easly kill yourself in a Civic so why would you want to give a Child a car thats 3 times as powerful? Stupid, Ignorant and Irresponsible. Sorry if you don't agree.

Edit: Oh and I notice that your Dad got you a 85 Escort in 95 and not an RX7. Smart Man and I give him props because his son doesn't seem to be very responsible 13 years later

so my internet crashed.... probably a good thing cuz it gave me a chance to calm down and not go off on you like I should. I figure you to be about 10 to 15 years older than me. That puts in the range of class of '81 to '86. Here are some of the top of the line cars available to teenagers back then. Whether your parents let you have one or not is another story:

1981 Camaro Z-28: 350 V8 175 bhp @ 4000 rpm, 275 lb-ft @ 2400 rpm.
1985 Mustang 5.0: 4V-302 V8 GT (T-5) 210 HP @ 4400 RPM 270 ft/lbs. @ 3200 RPM
1983 Trans Am: OHV V-8 305/5.0 190@4800 240@3200 4 bbl

Please do not bs these kids with their top of the line mazda 3's with a turbo. The ft-lbs are all the same. The higher HP is directly proportional to the higher rpm's now-a-days.

And do not attempt to attack me personally. It only vindicates my point of view. Don't use the word responsible either. I hate that word