I am starting to plan an audio system for my 2008 MS3. The plan is for a stealth system using the factory (non-Bose) head unit. So far, the plan is to use a LOC on the front speakers to feed a Zapco DC1000.4 amp. The amps internal processing capability, adjustable with software on a laptop, will avoid having to use a 3sixty or similar processor. It will give me 150 watts to each of the front doors and 500 watts to an Image Dynamics IDMax 12 sub. The plan is to install the sub in the spare tire well and position the amp in the foam-filled area between the well and the fold-down seatback. By having the cooling grillework for the amps (rackmount vent panel) and grille for the sub integrated into the floor panel and installing the sub in a depression in its enclosure, I hope to design something that will still give me a flat floor. Just leave the factory rear speakers powered off the head. Still have not figured out what to do up front and need to wait for a nice day to take everything apart, install some damping material, and see how much space there is. The choices would be 2-way with midbass and tweeter in the door, midbass in the door and tweeter in factory location or figuring out how to stuff an 8 midbass in the doors and put a mid and tweet in the kick panels. Hoping to hear about other installs to get some new ideas and figure out what sounds best in this car. All opinions welcome!
2008 MS3 Audio System
- Thread starter MikeBurns
- Start date
You should be able to get a 8" mid-bass in there without too much trouble. I think you have 3.25" of depth + whatever baffle you can fit in there.
Fourthmeal's buildup is the best guide/reference there is right now.
I haven't seen anyone do kicks yet in a speed 3, but nothing is stopping you if you're willing to loose the dead pedal.
PERSONALLY: I find that the factory sail locations are awesome. I'm going with a 2 way system up front and don't feel that the complexity of a 3 way is worth it.
Current Setup
Bose Headunit
JL Audio Cleansweep (got it cheap)
Alpine PDX 2.150 Driving Alpine Type-R 5-1/4" components (temporary)
Alpine PDX 1.600 Driving an older Rockford Hx2 10" in a sealed enclosure
Next Setup
(I have all the stuff, just need to put it in)
Bose headunit
JL Audio Cleansweep
PDX 2.150 Driving Seas 7" Mids (poly cone) and Seas Neo Aluminum tweets
(Yet to be determined crossover network splitting the signal for the front stage, not going active yet)
PDX 1.600 Driving JL Audio 10w6v2 in sealed enclosure
Future Setup
Bose Headunit
JBL MS-8 Processor
Alpine PDX 4.150 controlled actively from the MS-8
Unknown speakers, probably still the Seas Poly and Neo's
Alpine PDX 1.600 Driving the 10w6v2
Fourthmeal's buildup is the best guide/reference there is right now.
I haven't seen anyone do kicks yet in a speed 3, but nothing is stopping you if you're willing to loose the dead pedal.
PERSONALLY: I find that the factory sail locations are awesome. I'm going with a 2 way system up front and don't feel that the complexity of a 3 way is worth it.
Current Setup
Bose Headunit
JL Audio Cleansweep (got it cheap)
Alpine PDX 2.150 Driving Alpine Type-R 5-1/4" components (temporary)
Alpine PDX 1.600 Driving an older Rockford Hx2 10" in a sealed enclosure
Next Setup
(I have all the stuff, just need to put it in)
Bose headunit
JL Audio Cleansweep
PDX 2.150 Driving Seas 7" Mids (poly cone) and Seas Neo Aluminum tweets
(Yet to be determined crossover network splitting the signal for the front stage, not going active yet)
PDX 1.600 Driving JL Audio 10w6v2 in sealed enclosure
Future Setup
Bose Headunit
JBL MS-8 Processor
Alpine PDX 4.150 controlled actively from the MS-8
Unknown speakers, probably still the Seas Poly and Neo's
Alpine PDX 1.600 Driving the 10w6v2
Sounds like you have a very good system in the works there however that system wont reach its full potential until you go with a aftermarket HU. Also for the spare tire well with the ID max i'd sound deaden the tire well and then i would glass it and then form a enclosure that will sit at least an inch or so under the actual floor. Excursion will but poping out if not. then you can fabricated a peice of hard wood or plastic and carpet it to act as the hiding shield of the sub, make sure you make the wood or plastic into an actual grill not just a solid peice.
My personal favorite sub sealed is a Stereo Integrity Magnum 12". I've heard alot of the stuff on the market and this is one of the best sounding to date.
My personal favorite sub sealed is a Stereo Integrity Magnum 12". I've heard alot of the stuff on the market and this is one of the best sounding to date.
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bulls***.
There, I called you on it.
You can build an amazing system without an aftermarket headunit.
When I do the enclosure, I will probably do a plaster casting of the tire well/ trunk area to make a plug and mold to fabricate the enclosure. That way, I can get a lightweight (don't want to slow the car down!), stiff, and damp box. Used to make racing kayaks and could pull off sub-20-pound 4.5-meter boats. Already planning the recessed sub. Was going to use the IDMax 'cause I already have it and was pleased in my old car. I also have a couple Hsu Research 12s sitting around.
I have an MS3 GT....what would you say could make an amazing system with this setup?
What about even just adding and amp and sub? The amp would power just the front speakers and then another amp just for the sub.
Well, I just posted three examples that would work great.
Check out Fourthmeal's general how to audio post for more details.
fourthmeal
Banned
I'd like to address some things here:
First, the stock head unit (Bose or non) are great starting points for a system. The transport is good, and the core of electronic components are good. Anybody who cares to disagree can hop right in my car for an audition.
Second, the stock head unit (especially the non-Bose) requires a capable integrator to achieve sound quality comparable to aftermarket models. So, while the stock head unit is a great starting point, it MUST be supported with a good equalizer/time-corrector/crossover setup. I chose the Rockford Fosgate 3sixty.2, but there are others. If I could do it again, I'd install the JBL MS-8 in a heartbeat. But, it wasn't out at the time (is it out now??!)
Third, a full sound deadening is required if you are after good sound. This is the most important step, IMO. I used Ensolite and Raammat, both Raamaudio products and they perform great together. Give me a budget with Dynamat Xtreme pricing, and I'll provide you the same quality product from Raamaudio, with about 1/2 of your money coming back to you. LOL!
Fourth(meal), the sail panels are great, if you can get a tweeter to fit. My Cantons fit perfectly. If you want, I imagine the A-pillars would also be a great place to go.
Fifth, I tried to fab up kickpanels, but I couldn't make it happen without too many compromises. However, if you want to try it by all means go for it. I imagine you could fit a 4" woofer down there, or a ribbon.
Sixth, the doors are just great with 6.5" component woofers without much fabrication. However, if you could figure out how to put in 7's or 8's, that would be better still. This would require a bit of work though. Also, the door skin tends to muffle the midrange a bit, thanks to the grille design. I'd recommend something that could cut the stock design out, but still look clean.
Seventh, My system certainly isn't the holy grail of audio, but it is the best sounding system overall that I've built for myself. So don't think I'm trying to be all high and mighty with "Listen to my car"...I just want people to know the stock head unit isn't completely without merit. My signature explain what I've got.
First, the stock head unit (Bose or non) are great starting points for a system. The transport is good, and the core of electronic components are good. Anybody who cares to disagree can hop right in my car for an audition.
Second, the stock head unit (especially the non-Bose) requires a capable integrator to achieve sound quality comparable to aftermarket models. So, while the stock head unit is a great starting point, it MUST be supported with a good equalizer/time-corrector/crossover setup. I chose the Rockford Fosgate 3sixty.2, but there are others. If I could do it again, I'd install the JBL MS-8 in a heartbeat. But, it wasn't out at the time (is it out now??!)
Third, a full sound deadening is required if you are after good sound. This is the most important step, IMO. I used Ensolite and Raammat, both Raamaudio products and they perform great together. Give me a budget with Dynamat Xtreme pricing, and I'll provide you the same quality product from Raamaudio, with about 1/2 of your money coming back to you. LOL!
Fourth(meal), the sail panels are great, if you can get a tweeter to fit. My Cantons fit perfectly. If you want, I imagine the A-pillars would also be a great place to go.
Fifth, I tried to fab up kickpanels, but I couldn't make it happen without too many compromises. However, if you want to try it by all means go for it. I imagine you could fit a 4" woofer down there, or a ribbon.
Sixth, the doors are just great with 6.5" component woofers without much fabrication. However, if you could figure out how to put in 7's or 8's, that would be better still. This would require a bit of work though. Also, the door skin tends to muffle the midrange a bit, thanks to the grille design. I'd recommend something that could cut the stock design out, but still look clean.
Seventh, My system certainly isn't the holy grail of audio, but it is the best sounding system overall that I've built for myself. So don't think I'm trying to be all high and mighty with "Listen to my car"...I just want people to know the stock head unit isn't completely without merit. My signature explain what I've got.
fourthmeal
Banned
I didn't do a plaster casting, I just went straight to fiberglass and made a tub. It works fine, and you can get about 1.5 cubes of airspace. My 10" LMT sub required it, plus a tiny bit more (which I got by raising the top flat portion of my tub an inch or so.)
Still, it isn't light and I don't think you'll be happy if you make it too light. I started light but got too much resonance, so I mixed up some "milkshake" (resin, body filler, reiniforced body filler, all slopped together with shreds of glass) and I poured a layer of that inside the box. This, combined with a good coating of spray-on Bedliner inside made for a DEAD box. But it added 10 lbs total. That, combined with my overbuilding style and my 40+ lbs subwoofer, AND the heavy-ass tube amps...well the back end is tucked!
fourthmeal
Banned
Sorry to post 3 in a row...just wanted to introduce an idea to you guys:
I'm completely out of a budget to make this happen, but when I get my financial life back together, I'm going to work on a lightweight, removable design. Feel free to build on this idea.
I'm going to take a concrete former called a Sonotube, made out of very stiff cardboard. It comes in a cylindrical tube. The plan is to make a sealed subwoofer tube using this as the core, combined with baltic birch endcovers. I imagine this would fit pretty well into the trunk, taking about 1/3rd of it. However, it could be designed with Molex quick-disconnect plugs so I could remove it in a heartbeat if needed. Under the stock spare-tire trunk coverboard, both of my amps could easily be installed without sacrificing the spare tire, which is something I have to do now. This would improve on my current tub design due to the inherent weight of those sono-tubes. They are very light, and the resulting enclosure would weigh roughly 1/2 of what I've built now. I'd also change subs, since the 10" LMT I'm using now takes up a tremendous amount of airspace and weighs 40+ lbs. I'm thinking a new Neodymium TC sounds design, but that's still in the air.
I'm completely out of a budget to make this happen, but when I get my financial life back together, I'm going to work on a lightweight, removable design. Feel free to build on this idea.
I'm going to take a concrete former called a Sonotube, made out of very stiff cardboard. It comes in a cylindrical tube. The plan is to make a sealed subwoofer tube using this as the core, combined with baltic birch endcovers. I imagine this would fit pretty well into the trunk, taking about 1/3rd of it. However, it could be designed with Molex quick-disconnect plugs so I could remove it in a heartbeat if needed. Under the stock spare-tire trunk coverboard, both of my amps could easily be installed without sacrificing the spare tire, which is something I have to do now. This would improve on my current tub design due to the inherent weight of those sono-tubes. They are very light, and the resulting enclosure would weigh roughly 1/2 of what I've built now. I'd also change subs, since the 10" LMT I'm using now takes up a tremendous amount of airspace and weighs 40+ lbs. I'm thinking a new Neodymium TC sounds design, but that's still in the air.
vinkalmann
Member
I'd have to agree. I have the stock head unit running into an Alpine PXE-H650 (http://www.alpine-usa.com/US-en/products/product.php?model=PXE-H650) and an Alpine PDX-4.150, MB Quart QSC-216 6.5" components and a Polk 10in SR series sub in the trunk and the sound is clean and tight. Easily sounds as good as the high-end Alpine head unit I had in the last car. No complaints. Through the Alpine processor does cost as much as a nice head-unit =).
vinkalmann
Member
Interesting idea! Do you need to worry about flex with the cardboard, or does the cylinder shape help with that? Seems like this design would be a really construction method especially when getting the inner volume correct.
fourthmeal
Banned
Well, they hold thousands of psi of pressure from concrete pouring, and do not fail. I'd say they work great.
vinkalmann
Member
Good point =).
Nope.. still isn't out.
MAYBE July/August.
JBL is keeping quiet about it. Talked to a national competitor who has used one... its good.. really good... Almost TOO good.
fourthmeal
Banned
I'd consider the Alpine 650 thing then. My RF is great,...I mean its friggin awesome, but I wouldn't buy one unless you already have a compatible PDA or a phone that can run the program (or a laptop.) If you have one of those, then the 3sixty.2's features are worth buying. Personally, I just set it once with a friend's laptop and all is well. But if I had my own way to adjust things, I'm sure I'd be tweaking and tuning every damn week 
You can build a nice system but alot of installs I see locally just feed off the power outputs on the factory unit going to their amp stages I don't personally like this. Goto SQ competitions and see how many people are using stock headunits to win. Last time I was at one there wasn't a single person using one.
I'm not saying you can't build one but if your going all high end no point in staying with the stock unit when they have units with better processing and capacitors. Such as the clarion DRZ-9255 , Pioneer Dex9/Peq 9 . For most people though, they really wont ever need a full blown holy grail setup as mentioned earlier.
Btw Fourthmeal nice taste in amps my buddy runs the old planet stuff with tubes and sounds nice and warm. Hopefully the audio industry can make those new class D full spectrum amps sound better but its hard to beat tubes even in 6 figure home audio.
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fourthmeal
Banned
Granted, Vengure. But if you've competed very long (I have) then you know as well as I do that you're on a different level altogether when you're competing vs. listening to good music in your car while driving. I agree, factory head units have their limitations. But given the fact that not one aftermarket dash kit company has got it "right" yet, a lot of people are sticking with stock and doing fine. Personally, the sound quality of the stock head unit is actually quite good, provided you send the raw signal for processing to a decent integrator.
I have pictures stored of the stock head unit's circuit boards and choice of parts, and nothing looked out of place for what it was.
I have pictures stored of the stock head unit's circuit boards and choice of parts, and nothing looked out of place for what it was.
See I havent personally even checked into a dash kit for the MS3 so suppose I was jumping in without reading all the facts. If the stock radio is the only that avalible that looks good. I'll probably using the same thing I dont concentrate on sound as much as I do going fast these days
