More cai concerns

[Sacrilicious]

It doesnt work so well in the box. Maybe that's why you arent noticing any better performance?

this issue has been beaten like crazy into the ground. i'd copy and paste a more detailed explanation i've made from previous threads, but here's the short of it:

intake air mashed into the turbo gets compressed and heated up a whole hell of a lot. it then gets pumped into the intercooler, where it is cooled with ambient temperature air down to whatever temperature this allows before actually getting to the engine. this means that if you intake slightly hotter air, you're going to heat it up a hell of a lot and then cool it again with ambient air. basically, the difference in temp between "warm" intake air and "cold" intake air will be very small after it's been heated AND cooled like this. NA engines are not subject to this twist, so a CAI vs SRI is much more apparent to them.

the REAL kicker is that the majority of the time, both SRI's and CAI's suck in the same temperature air: as long as the car is moving ~30mph+, air in the engine bay is already "cold"...

in the end, the main advantage that people with turbos get the CAI and SRI for is that they're now sucking air through a 3" pipe instead of a freakin coffee straw...=/

 

[Sacrilicious]

btw...if you want to compare normal vs cai vs sri, the only fair way would be to do your cai vs sri comparisons using a converted cai (ie: don't install the pipes that go down to the fender). otherwise, you may be dealing with a completely different AFR because of the MAF housing sizing and air flow. the MS CAI does not have stock AFR so that means if you compare a MS CAI with a Cobb SRI, it's NOT the same as comparing a MS CAI vs MS CAI-converted-to-SRI.

 

[KZL_99ES]

i go with SRI for the winter, then i'm going to put an extra elbow pipe going straight down to make it a CAI for the summer! (...yes, dont worry, with the air filter...lol)

at first i thought that the CAI wouldn't make a difference in the summer because the heat from the day and sun would radiate up and give you warm air anyways... but i think i just am over thinking about it; as soon as you start moving the cold(er) air you will get, also its all relative since it just means that it's colder than the air in your engine bay...
...that's my 2cents...

 

[Betelgeuse]

It doesnt work so well in the box. Maybe that's why you arent noticing any better performance?

Actually it'll work much better when I get paid for it, lol.

 

[flipstylex]

this issue has been beaten like crazy into the ground. i'd copy and paste a more detailed explanation i've made from previous threads, but here's the short of it:

intake air mashed into the turbo gets compressed and heated up a whole hell of a lot. it then gets pumped into the intercooler, where it is cooled with ambient temperature air down to whatever temperature this allows before actually getting to the engine. this means that if you intake slightly hotter air, you're going to heat it up a hell of a lot and then cool it again with ambient air. basically, the difference in temp between "warm" intake air and "cold" intake air will be very small after it's been heated AND cooled like this. NA engines are not subject to this twist, so a CAI vs SRI is much more apparent to them.

the REAL kicker is that the majority of the time, both SRI's and CAI's suck in the same temperature air: as long as the car is moving ~30mph+, air in the engine bay is already "cold"...

in the end, the main advantage that people with turbos get the CAI and SRI for is that they're now sucking air through a 3" pipe instead of a freakin coffee straw...=/

Finally somebody who know's what there talking about.....(pullup)

to me , the difference between the 2 is prolly 5hp, for cai...but i'll take convinience over performance anytime ...at least u don't have to think twice driving in heavy rain with the sri (inout)

 

[2ManyCars]

this issue has been beaten like crazy into the ground. i'd copy and paste a more detailed explanation i've made from previous threads, but here's the short of it:

intake air mashed into the turbo gets compressed and heated up a whole hell of a lot. it then gets pumped into the intercooler, where it is cooled with ambient temperature air down to whatever temperature this allows before actually getting to the engine. this means that if you intake slightly hotter air, you're going to heat it up a hell of a lot and then cool it again with ambient air. basically, the difference in temp between "warm" intake air and "cold" intake air will be very small after it's been heated AND cooled like this. NA engines are not subject to this twist, so a CAI vs SRI is much more apparent to them.

the REAL kicker is that the majority of the time, both SRI's and CAI's suck in the same temperature air: as long as the car is moving ~30mph+, air in the engine bay is already "cold"...

in the end, the main advantage that people with turbos get the CAI and SRI for is that they're now sucking air through a 3" pipe instead of a freakin coffee straw...=/

Thanks. This all sounds reasonable - particularly the last comment after seeing the stock air box inlet. I picked the MS CAI for a variety of reasons, one being the fact that I was putting it on a brand new car and did not want a hassle from the dealer. I definitely noticed a difference from the stock airbox but as you say, that could be the difference in intake volume.

 

[KZL_99ES]

yeah, it almost seems CAI's are almost better for non-turbo cars, where the cooler air goes directly into the engine instead of going through the turbo, isn't that what the innercooler is for?

 

[Sacrilicious]

at first i thought that the CAI wouldn't make a difference in the summer because the heat from the day and sun would radiate up and give you warm air anyways... but i think i just am over thinking about it; as soon as you start moving the cold(er) air you will get, also its all relative since it just means that it's colder than the air in your engine bay...
...that's my 2cents...

let's say you're moving 50mph...

i'll give you three guesses how much of a temperature difference there is between the air in the fender and the air in the engine bay (which is getting fresh air rammed into it from the front grille)...

 

[flipstylex]

^right

 

[flipstylex]

sri ftw haha...






i don't even have these mods damnit !!!

 

[KZL_99ES]

let's say you're moving 50mph...

i'll give you three guesses how much of a temperature difference there is between the air in the fender and the air in the engine bay (which is getting fresh air rammed into it from the front grille)...

yeah, there's prob not going to be that much of a difference that would be noticeable.

 

[Sacrilicious]

Thanks. This all sounds reasonable - particularly the last comment after seeing the stock air box inlet. I picked the MS CAI for a variety of reasons, one being the fact that I was putting it on a brand new car and did not want a hassle from the dealer. I definitely noticed a difference from the stock airbox but as you say, that could be the difference in intake volume.

np. it's a common misconception that people have that just doesn't apply to turbocharged cars. it makes a hell of a lot of sense for NA engines which are actually using the air that they're pulling in right away, but our hotpads (turbos) throw that idea out the window! (eek2)

 

[Speedy3]

Hello from Dallas,

I recently has a Mazda CAI installed on my new MS3. Here are some observations:

1. I think I feel a loss of low end torque

See graph attached. Power and torque are higher than stock at a lower RPM.

2. There seems to be turbo lag going from 3 to 4th.

I believe this is a fuel pressure issue. My fuel graphs show an initial drop in pressure to 400psi when I first punch it, then it climbs up to ~1700-1800 psi.

3. The car pulls hard above 3000 rpm but not so much below 3000 grand.

The car does pull harder at lower RPMS (See Dyno comparison), but it also pulls even harder at high RPMS.

1. Has anyone had a similar experience with there CAI?

No.

2. HAs anyone removed the CAI and gone back to stock?

Yes. I went back to stock to Dyno the car in the "before" configuration. I was glad to get the CAI back on a few days later.

3. Anyone have a solution?
I would appreciate anyones input

Thanks, J.Scott

Solution is to go dyno it for yourself, then afterwards take off the CAI and dyno it again. If you still feel like the gains are not what you expect, put the CAI on ebay and stay in the stock config!

 

[Bravnik]

Hello from Dallas,

I recently has a Mazda CAI installed on my new MS3. Here are some observations:

1. I think I feel a loss of low end torque
2. There seems to be turbo lag going from 3 to 4th.
3. The car pulls hard above 3000 rpm but not so much below 3000 grand.

The reason and sound vague is I have only have 550 miles on the car- I
don't have a complete feel of proper performance.

I have some ideas about what may be occuring, but I would like responses on
a some questions.


1. Has anyone had a similar experience with there CAI?

2. HAs anyone removed the CAI and gone back to stock?

3. Anyone have a solution?
I would appreciate anyones input

Thanks, J.Scott

We did a Mazda Dyno Day on Saturday. There were 2 stock MS3's and 1 with MS CAI, 1 with MS CAI / TurboXS Test Pipe, 1 With ECU / CP-E CAI / CP-E Exhaust.

The Stock MS3's adveraged 208-210 HP, the CAI ran 230HP, the CAI/RP Ran 229, the ECU ran 229 with ECU off, 247 with ECU on.

Please keep in mind that this was on a Mustang Dyno and the one we ran on was an AWD version (Not sure if all Mustangs are) and known as the heartbreaker! Hoods were down and I think they had frontal fans on. No cheating with hoods up or dry ice on the IC's.

So the moral of all this text is that the CAI will net you close to 20hp Dyno proven once again. Your butt dyno is off is all

 

[KZL_99ES]

damn, I wouldn't think that a CAI would give 20-30 hp, NICE!
(I suppose it does make a difference a turbo car)

THE EVIDENCE HAS SPOKEN!

 

[Sierra117]

So wait...the car lost horsepower with the race pipe?

 

[Mallitious]

We did a Mazda Dyno Day on Saturday. There were 2 stock MS3's and 1 with MS CAI, 1 with MS CAI / TurboXS Test Pipe, 1 With ECU / CP-E CAI / CP-E Exhaust.

The Stock MS3's adveraged 208-210 HP, the CAI ran 230HP, the CAI/RP Ran 229, the ECU ran 229 with ECU off, 247 with ECU on.

Please keep in mind that this was on a Mustang Dyno and the one we ran on was an AWD version (Not sure if all Mustangs are) and known as the heartbreaker! Hoods were down and I think they had frontal fans on. No cheating with hoods up or dry ice on the IC's.

So the moral of all this text is that the CAI will net you close to 20hp Dyno proven once again. Your butt dyno is off is all

Nice posting. Some people seem so anti CAI cause they have SRI. It is getting ridiculous! CAI has been proven many times to be the best hp gainer over the 2. Hope more people realise this. Not to say the SRI is not worth getting. It definately has some benefits over CAI, but for overall gains the CAI is by far the best way to go.

 

[KZL_99ES]

So wait...the car lost horsepower with the race pipe?

no....look at the charts above you please.

 

[Bravnik]

So wait...the car lost horsepower with the race pipe?

I think they might, but the turbo spools quicker. I'm not sure why the one with just the MS CAI had 230hp. We did some theory talk and the only thing we did and he didn't do was that we have the last ECU Reflash and he didn't. He also said that everytime he takes off the neg ground to reset the ecu he runs the s*** out of the car after for about 100 miles to let the ecu relearn his driving style.

I had just reset my ECU the Sunday before and the other guy had reset his about 2 days before and I hardly every run the s*** out of my car. So maybe there is something there or maybe the exhaust stuff does not make too big of a differance or maybe the other car is one of the freaks. Who knows, the end result was that it was a great day and I'm happy with my numbers seeing as they came off a Mustang Dyno.

 

[Sacrilicious]

not to try to spoil the mood, but are you saying that you compared stock vs CAI numbers based on dyno charts from different cars?