wheel lift dependant on driving style?

[khaosman]

Totally off topic, but I somehow feel that running on three wheels would scare the piss out of me. Then again, the last time i was on three, then two, then none, it wasn't a pleasant experience.

In autocross it is no big deal... if you were on the street, then you have bigger problems

Plus in our cars I don't think you notice as much. There are some cars, like older VWs or my friend's Civic, that 3 wheel through entire sweeper turns.

And if you get into a drift, that is fun

 

[Jas00x]

Bump for comments. This is appears to be a misunderstood part of FWD tuning here and I'd liek to see more discussion.

I totally agree with you on this. To clarify even further, I would specify this as ideal for an autocross setup, however it may apply to some road racing setups too (I just don't have the experience there). In a FWD car you want a little rear wheel lift on the inside tire-probably like 2". However, those of you with stock cars picking up the rear AND the front is not good. Thats a problem of too much body roll overall (same deal with wayne's MR-S)! The front has got to stay planted to get the traction you need- so you need to start by stiffing up the back end with shocks, springs or swaybar. While it is true that you are "losing" traction at the rear end of the car, you are transferring weight to the front and gaining more traction at the front- where you need it to power out of the turn. Typically the "loss" of traction on the back end translates simply to oversteer and should be very managable to drive. Most drivers don't even know when the rear tire is up, so there are really no issues with loss of traction or drive-ability. Usually if the car is "sliding" both rear tires are down because the outside tire has exceded its grip. Keeping the car on one rear wheel means that you are reaching a maximum point of grip.
But really guys..its FRONT wheel drive. The front tires do all the work and matter the most. I don't know why people get so freaked out when they see a car lift a rear wheel! As long as the front wheels are gripping and you aren't spinning out all over the place- you are in a good place.
Oh- and I would not say its "driving style" dependent. If two people are driving the same car, one person is getting the rear wheel up and the other is not- the second driver is probably not pushing the car enough and is probably going to be slower.

 

[sm76]

I think the issue of tire-lift is moot. When you're driving a car, there is no way to tell whether the tire lifted or is on the ground because at the actual point of the tire lifting, it goes from basically 0 to actually 0. The weight is transfered regardless of lift or even suspension travel for that matter. The lift shows either way too much body roll (as was the case with the Golf I got stuck driving when I worked in Germany) or a stiff swaybar or limited suspension droop. I think the reason a lot of fast set-ups have tire lift is going to be mostly due to large rear swaybars.
It does make for good pictures though.

 

[Jas00x]

I think the reason a lot of fast set-ups have tire lift is going to be mostly due to large rear swaybars.

Exactly. FWD is dependent on large rear bars, or generally stiff rear suspension to get the proper traction up front to be fast.
I know there are some oddities out there- I think the early 90's Nissan SE-R is typically known to have a "backwards" setup. But for the most part, FWD needs a stiff rear suspension.

 

[Kansei]

I am on three wheels whenever I enter my driveway and lots of random parking lot entrances too

 

[Jas00x]

I am on three wheels whenever I enter my driveway and lots of random parking lot entrances too

Awesome. That's the fastest way to park!

 

[Kansei]

don't even have to be moving

<a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/clauretano/AXRClunkFix/photo#4988532057556910098"><img src="http://lh4.google.com/image/clauretano/RTrTedlUABI/AAAAAAAAAXQ/2qnOnp9Z1fw/s400/IMG_2670.jpg" /></a>

 

[low_psi]

You can't transfer all the weight off the inside rear if its still touching the ground. If its touching the ground you still have some vertical force. I will agree that most US tuned FWD cars have big rear sway bars and higher rear than front rates, but racers in other countries run front biased wheel rates and aren't slow.

I haven't had the time to run the calcs but a Protege shouldn't be much different than the other FWD calcs I've seen in the respect that even with the IR tire unweighted the lone rear tire is still able to generate enough grip to maintain traction while the front pair of tires are working towards terminal grip.