weird timing issues

[95blkprobe]

So first thing first. I have an 02 p5 with a jdm fp-de installed. I had the car running n/a for about 3k miles. Car ran great with no problems. I then installed a factory turbo setup using:
msp ecu
msp s&j pipe
msp turbo
atp wg
all factory cooant and oil feed lines
10an return line
fmic with maf relocation and vented bov.
NGK 1 stage colder plugs gapped at .030 (these were for my big turbo install, but parted all that and went with stock boost and turbo)
msp oil cooler
always ran 93 octane since owning the car

I also have a boost gauge and wideband hooked up so I can monitor.

After buttoning the car together, i took it for a test drive and the car would make no power. AFRs and boost was fine (7psi). I then remembered my knock sensor was loose so i jst unplugged it to test my theory, it pulled good till a CEL would pop up (unplugged knock sensor). I took it all apart and tightened up on the knock sensor real good and it seemed to pull fine. I am now experiencing timing isuues on and off. the car seems to pull fine when its cold but on and off when its hot. I have an OBD2 bluetooth thing and the torque app on my phone and monitor timing this way. Sometimes it will get as low as -7.5 under full boost. When the feels right, it only gets as low as +7.0. The only CELs I have is primary o2 (idk why), secondary (I have my wideband in there and have an analog output from the gauge going to the ecu but it must need the o2 plugged in as well to see a complete circuit), and sometimes an evap code which is because I dont have it hooked up and never have. I have a ssafcv2 i still need to install as well but that shouldnt affect my timing issues, as i said before, my AFRs stay around 10.9-11.3 under full boost and wot.

I have read that the stock plugs should help, i checked mine after a 800 mile round trip and everything looks great. any ideas?

 

[95blkprobe]

anyone?

 

[dacquesta1]

i think your ecu is stuck in open loop. not having your primary and secondary o2 will cause the ecu to stay in open loop and retard timing. your best bet would be to get the primary and secondary o2 sensors back in there (nothing wrong with the 50 dollar bosch ones) and weld a bung in for the wideband. is the knock sensor issue situated or still throwing a code for that.

edit: if your primary o2 decided to take a crap on ya then that will cause huge issues too

 

[95blkprobe]

I never had a CEL from the knock sensor till i unplugged it. No code when its plugs in and it seems to be doing its job right. I just dont understand how the car will pull hard sometimes, and not on other occasions. Pretty sure it pulls about the same all the time when the knock sensor is unplugged, but i think it will just stay on baseline timing

 

[dacquesta1]

maybe its the o2 sensors then? you said it was throwing a code for the primary, maybe its on it's way out.

 

[95blkprobe]

ill order a new one and hope thats the problem. didnt think an o2 sensor will cause the ecu to pull timing

 

[dacquesta1]

o2 will cause open loop though

 

[dacquesta1]

mine ran like garbage when i had a bad primary o2

 

[95blkprobe]

i think your ecu is stuck in open loop. not having your primary and secondary o2 will cause the ecu to stay in open loop and retard timing. your best bet would be to get the primary and secondary o2 sensors back in there (nothing wrong with the 50 dollar bosch ones) and weld a bung in for the wideband. is the knock sensor issue situated or still throwing a code for that.

edit: if your primary o2 decided to take a crap on ya then that will cause huge issues too

url for the $50 bosch sensors or maybe a part number?

 

[dacquesta1]

autozone i think...ill look it up for ya give me a few min. my primary is a bosch and its been fine for two years now

 

[dacquesta1]

http://www.autozone.com/autozone/parts/Bosch-Oxygen-Sensor/2002-Mazda-Protege/_/N-jhm3pZ9ixrp?itemIdentifier=282413_170066_16521_97999

that is the one in my car

 

[95blkprobe]

rock auto has a delphi thats an oe replacement for only 45 shipped. imma try that one out, ill probably change plugs too

 

[dacquesta1]

good deal...which ngk heat range are you running 5/6/7?

 

[95blkprobe]

have 7s in it now, will be going with the 6s next.

 

[dacquesta1]

yeah the 7's are probably too cold. 6's should do you good along with new o2 sensors and a bung for your wideband

 

[95blkprobe]

the only thing with the bung is it would have to go after the j pipe since i dont like welding cast. also, since this is all on a p5, wont I still have a secondary o2 CEL since my cat is no longer here since the turbo took its place?

 

[dacquesta1]

you can either do the spark plug non-fouler trick like i did with my headers or grab a vibrant simulator off xoverauto. no cel

 

[dacquesta1]

i gotta head out for a few hours...u have my # if you need anything

 

[01CrznMp3]

almost sounds like my problem. My car has power and pulls when it is first started but when engine is warm it is real boggy. I hit 12 lbs of boost and its like i just lay on the ebrake. Then like if i make a right turn downshift into 2nd and nail it....it will bog down for a few seconds running like 16 lean and then bam shoots up to 11 and starts pulling pretty hard. But then I notice too I am having problems boosting and getting past 5000rpm.

 

[95blkprobe]

do you have any way to monitor your timing?