need sub amp suggestions

[White 6s]

original post is here:
http://www.mazdamp3.com/vbb225/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10403

i'm gonna run the phoenix zx450 for the mids/highs.

my question is for the 3 jl12w6's from what i can understand it can be run:

4 ohm mono
1 ohm mono

anyone suggest an amp to run this combo? how much power can a 12w6 comfortably push. 800-900 watts? i've narrowed down to 3 amps:

Soundstream RUB1000-2
200 watts x 2 @ 4 ohms
500 watts x 2 @ 2 ohms
1000 watts x 1 @ 4 ohm mono

JL audio 500/1
Rated Power:
500 W RMS @ 1.5 ohm-4 ohm


PrecisionPower PCX2200
200 x 2 Watts @ 4 Ohms
400 x 2 Watts @ 2 Ohms
800 x 1 Watts Bridged Mono


i'm leaning alil more towards sq if possible. any other suggestions?

 

[Rider69]

JBL bP1200.1
Specifications MSRP US$: $549.95
Output 4 Ohms: 600W x 1
Output 2 Ohms: 1200W x 1
Signal-to-Noise (dBA): >100
Frequency Response (3dB): 20Hz - 500Hz
Total Harmonic Distortion: 0.1%
Input Sensitivity: 250mV - 4V


Retail price: $549.95
You save: $279.95 (51%)
at BSLESS.COM

Add about $10 for shipping and you can have it in less than a week. I bought all 3 of my amps from them, they are great.

 

[1sty]

Adding another 12", damn thats going to be loud!

The old W6 sub wants 300 watts RMS but can handle over 500 watts RMS. If your using 3 of them, thus solving the weird impedance issue. The JL will be a little short on power for 3, if it was the JL 1000/1 then you'd be good to go. Also the Xtant X1001 would do and about 50 other amps. The JL is my favorite of the bunch you listed but the other to are rated well.

JBLs are an insult to W6 subwoofers.

 

[White 6s]

1st mp3,
thanks again for the help. i think i'm going to go with the soundstream amp. In your opinion what is the quality of the sound of the Phoenix gold zx450? everywhere i say phoenix gold all they say it's gonna be loud. phoenix is not known for good or top notch sound quality. it will have boston pro 6.5 upfront and and boston nx67 co-ax in the rear. should i spring extra for the rm6? or did i just kill the sound quality by the 3rd sub?

anyone want to "critique" my system for me since it's almost certain for all the components i'm going to use. i know alot of it bears with how it's gonna be installed. but here goes:

alpine cda 7894 head unit
alpine cha s634 mp3 6 disc changer
phoenix gold zx 450 amp (mids/highs)
Soundstream RUB1000-2 10001@4ohm mono (Subs)
boston pro 6.5 component set
boston nx 67 or rm6 (haven't decided yet) 6.5 co-ax in rear deck
3 jl 12w6's dual voice coil 6 ohm first gen subs will be in a sealed enclosure

thanks in advance.

 

[1sty]

Dude that phoenix gold amp rules ass! SQ wise.
Check this link. When this car added focal it first place in the IASCA finals for SQ

http://www.sound-in-motion.com/install.cfm

I beleive it was the 301-600 watt Pro division.

 

[Rider69]

JBLs are an insult to W6 subwoofers.

Please enlighten me as to your comment. What is wrong with JBL amps? Is it because they ar einexpensive. Hell, for the price of a JL 1000/1 I can get 2 JBL 1200.1! I don't think the power output is a question either. Personally I think the SQ is pretty damn good for the price and, to me, the JL's aren't worth the price they cost. These are highly recommended amps on other boards and for the $$ I don't think they can be beat. I was not sure of his budget, that is the main reason I recommended it.

Not trying to flame, just curious as to your comment.

 

[1sty]

Send me lit on the JBL and I will show you its flaws compared to an amp like the JL, this is of coarse If you can find any, I haven't exactly had any luck doing this. For mild setups with decent subs the JBL are fine. The JL audio W6 is the most winning SQ sub in history, It should be matted with a very accurate and powerful amp like the ZX series Pheonix Gold he uses. Not to Mention the JL is redicoulsly powerful and accurate.

 

[Rider69]

For s**** and giggles, this is the best that I can do...
http://manuals.harman.com/JBL/CAR/Owner's Manual/bp_om.pdf
On page 7 they have specs for all their amps. Mind you, he never said he was building a competition system. I admit after looking over the specs that the JL amps appear better, but unless you were doing competitions, I just can't see spending that kind of money. Unless of course, you have excess funds.

 

[White 6s]

dunno what's the problem with the JBL..maybe it's just experience with this unit? system is not for competition by any means...least i don't think it is...specs look fine....just need something clean...wanted all out sq..just one 12" but i got suckered into 3...well i have 3...dunno if i'll use them or not..prolly..

 

[1sty]

You want real power you pay for it plain and simple the reson the JBLs are less expensive is they are a lesser quality amp that puts out less real power. Considering the JL 500/1's damping factor will on par it with the power of the JBL 1200. Notice JBL doens't print at what power there amps are rated at or the frequency, no damping factor is listed at all and that is an extreamly important parameter for a sub amp.

JL subs are designed to accuratly reproduce the source signal. They will play the audibly lesser abilites of the JBL amps.

I personaly would only run 2 W6s and use the 500/1 but even 3 can be handled by the 500/1.

I am not familiar with either soundsteam amps or PPI these days so I don't know how they compare.

If the W3's were being used or the W0s then the JBL would be fine but I see it as undeserving of the W6s

 

[maxxbling]

saying that 1200 watts from one company is different than 1200 watts from another company is like saying that 300 horsepower from ford is different than 300 horsepower from chevy. Granted, there are distinct differences between the amps, but one thing is for sure--the JBL makes a shitload of power for the money. For 95% of the people who would ever hear it along with the car rattling and what not, would never be able to tell the difference. No one is going to say, "Wow, your bass really blurrs my vision! but it's not very accurate or musical." It's not really fair to knock a product just because it doesn't say JL Audio on it.

 

[1sty]

saying that 1200 watts from one company is different than 1200 watts from another company is like saying that 300 horsepower from ford is different than 300 horsepower from chevy. Granted, there are distinct differences between the amps, but one thing is for sure--the JBL makes a shitload of power for the money. For 95% of the people who would ever hear it along with the car rattling and what not, would never be able to tell the difference. No one is going to say, "Wow, your bass really blurrs my vision! but it's not very accurate or musical." It's not really fair to knock a product just because it doesn't say JL Audio on it.

That is very inaccurate. Power in a car matters most over a range of time or RPM band. 2 cars may be able to produce 200 HP but if one can keep to that number longer then it will be faster. Also horse power is only one relevant number, torque is another. This is similair to damping factor. Amps are much the same way in that any can produce a high number its how long it can produce that number that matters. The JL has an extreamly regulated voltage supply the JBL does not.

What happens when bas hits to the voltage in a car?
the voltage drops, sometimes very low.
As voltage drops the JBL will put out even less and less power. The JL will continue to produce the same regardless even with 11 volts. The JBL simply doesn't produce 1200 watts rms, its a bulls*** number. It might get near that at 14.4 volts which will last less then a millisecond once it starts playing. Also JL makes all of there ratings know and to how they got them. JBL does not. No where in there manual do they mention the voltage they derived their power rating from or the frequency. The list the bare minimunm of info to make some one unfamiliar with audio buy it.
Like I said before. I am not totaly insultig the amp. Its fine and will do well for many people but for a serious SQ setup in which JL W6s are a part and when compared to the JL amps, the JBLs are lacking. In amps you get what you pay for. If one is less expensive then another there is a damn good reason.

I know alot of people that could tell the difference of the the JL and the JBL. Although they list trelitively the same power, they aren't. I have a JL 1000/1 run off an optima battery 2 1 farad caps and a 180 amp alternator. The 1000/1 can all but stall the car at idle. At my store our sub wall has 8 12W3 v2s running off of one 1000/1. The amp isn't for copetition only. its for getting a constant 1000 watts of clean, uncliping, highly controlled power. Installs are competition.

 

[maxxbling]

unless you've tested it yourself you shouldn't say that a product's rated spec is "bulls***". It makes you sound ignorant. In addition to that, you should cruise over to the team amp forums and check out the literally hundreds of people who are using the jbl 1200.1 along with BRAHMA woofers and are pooping all over guys with jl 1000/1's and w7's. (SQ and SPL) I'm not saying that jl makes an inferior product, because they certainly do not, but if this guy can get comparable performance for less than half the price, does that make him smart or stupid?
Also if your car's voltage drops so significantly when your bass hits that it affects your amp's performance, it's not a sign of poor amp design, it's a sign that your car's charging system is not up to the task of feeding such a large amplifier.
you completely missed the poing on the horsepower thing.
Nobody's asking you to personally like this amp or put it in your car or anything. We're just trying to make suggestions for this other guy. By my count, you're the only person on this thread who doesn't agree with the rest of us.(flame) (flame2) (bicker) (notcool) (upyours) (no) (lol)

 

[Rider69]

BTW Maxx, really like the box. It sounds clean and tight with my Elemental 12 in there being pushed by my JBL 600.1. Thanks again.

 

[1sty]

Its not a matter of like or dislike. You compared the JBL to be an equivalent peice to the JL, it isn't. JBL doesn't even provide there specs, companies that do this are garbage by nature alone. Tyopicaly it will mean the use of 14.4 volt power rating which is the resting voltage of newer cars, however with a 1000 watt draw that voltage is all but definitly dropping to atleast 12 volts instantly. Thus I always use an amps 12.6 volt rating. If it doesn't have one its a bulls*** amp spec. I realy don't care who is running them or the success they've had. It doesn't matter. It is irrelavent to the comparision of the JBL vs the JL. THe JL is a better amp hands down. Rather those using it can install it an set it up correctly is another game all together.

 

[maxxbling]

Its not a matter of like or dislike. You compared the JBL to be an equivalent peice to the JL, it isn't. JBL doesn't even provide there specs, companies that do this are garbage by nature alone. Tyopicaly it will mean the use of 14.4 volt power rating which is the resting voltage of newer cars, however with a 1000 watt draw that voltage is all but definitly dropping to atleast 12 volts instantly. Thus I always use an amps 12.6 volt rating. If it doesn't have one its a bulls*** amp spec. I realy don't care who is running them or the success they've had. It doesn't matter. It is irrelavent to the comparision of the JBL vs the JL. THe JL is a better amp hands down. Rather those using it can install it an set it up correctly is another game all together.

better is a relative term. A Ferarri would certainly be a better car than your MP3 in many respects, but if you don't have 150 large to spend on one, it doesn't really matter if it's a superior car or not, does it? Oh, and once again you are making an assumption that because you can't seem to find the information that you are looking for on this amplifier that they must be lying about what their amp can do. I never said that the JBL was in any way identical to the JL amp. You seem to be missing the point that a watt is a watt no matter who it comes from. And before you go off on your high horse about whose specs are BS and whose are true, I will agree that not everyone's published wattage and measurement criteria are equal, however, all other things being equal a watt is a watt no matter who it comes from. Just like a horsepower is a horsepower no matter who makes it.(or a ft/lb of torque is a ft/lb of torque if you want to get silly on me again) The bottom line is that everyone's needs are different. Some people view "better" as the most performance for the least amount of money. Others view "better" as what their chain-store sales rep tells them is better. It really just depends on what your point of view is. Whatever yours may be, it's not fair to other people for you to chime in with your two cents just to bash a product that you really don't know anything about. You have evidenced this by saying yourself that you can't find the all important specs that you would need to give it your personal thumbs up, so instead of saying, "oh, hey man I really don't know about those amps. You should ask some other people who have them and are using them if they like them." you decide that you're right and we're all wrong and you don't care who is using them and the success that they've had and just say that this product is inferior. Taking your word on this would give Orange Speed everything that he would need to make the opposite of an educated decision.
Oh, and I'm glad you like your box Rider. I've been keeping tabs on your install, but haven't been able to find any more recent pics than the beginnings of the kicks. I also put up a post for you on the other board with some suggestions on how to easily make copies of that box. (begin sarcasm) But since you're not using a big name woofer and you're using those bulls***-rated JBL amps, it's and insult to my box design and it's not going to sound right unless you spend another seven hundred dollars on it and you'd better be damn sure that is says JL audio on it somewhere. (end sarcasm)(owned)

 

[1sty]

JL 1000/1 is a better amp then JBL 1200.
JBL hides stats to aviod the being slammed as :bs:.
Someone doing well with JBL, irrelavent to the JLs superiority.
Less expensive makes it less expensive, not a better amp.
JBL used less in SQ comps then JL even though they are more willing to sponsor.
Biggest difference in any 2 systems is install.
A watt is not a watt if it carries a clipped signal.
A watt is not a watt if it has a different damping factor.
A wattage rating falls on unregulated power supplies as power is consumed.
To believe a manufacture incomplete claims in a market with no regulating body is foolish.
Many other brands win SQ comps other then JL,MB quart door speakers win the most, JL subs win the most, amps are all over hell, reason being more people enter with these products then others.
I have no respect for a manufacture that can't come clean with the whole story behind its specs.

What are you still doing up this late?
You have a long day of deffending inferior products ahead of you tomorrow.

(rofl)

 

[maxxbling]

What are you still doing up this late?

Finding your posts and shooting them down.

 

[1sty]

You know you could accomplish alot more by simply stating where your opinions and experience differes from my own.

No one takes my word as gospel and would you really want them to take yours as such?

 

[1sty]

(rofl)

i just realized all you postes on this board are arguing with me.

I'm Honored.(yippy)