front rotors question

[jdoggsc]

Hey all,

The car shakes (pulsates) when braking, and the amplitude increases with pressure. I hear that's typical of a warped rotor, and that makes sense to me.
Yesterday I went to replace the rotors and couldn't get them off. To be fair, i only tried the driver's-side one.

I whacked it quite a bit with a hammer and it didn't budge (as if it was still held in mechanically) so i took a closer look and it appears the brake rotor is held in by the axle nut.

I'll post a picture of it later.

I checked with a mazda service center and they indicated you don't have to remove the axle nut. The factory service manual doesn't make mention of it either.

So I'm wondering what your guys' experience with this is.

I noticed from some youtube howtos that some proteges have 4-lug hubs. mine is a 5-lug, in case there is some rotor-removal difference associated with that.
It's 2003 protege es.

 

[IshSonP5]

the axle nut is just that....the rotor is probably seized from rust etc. use some breakfree, pb blaster, whatever you prefer and break it loose by spreaying around the hub and disk itself...

 

[jdoggsc]

that's not the case with all brake rotors. There are brake rotors that have the wheel bearings pressed into them. they are held in with the axle nut.

What I mostly want to know is if this is the usual brake rotor, or if this is not the original that came with the vehicle, but some "upgraded" one that the P.O. decided to put in with the fancy wheels and the neon lights, etc..

 

[IshSonP5]

that's not the case with all brake rotors. There are brake rotors that have the wheel bearings pressed into them. they are held in with the axle nut.

What I mostly want to know is if this is the usual brake rotor, or if this is not the original that came with the vehicle, but some "upgraded" one that the P.O. decided to put in with the fancy wheels and the neon lights, etc..

What? I have never heard about what you speak of...I think you mean the wheel hub...which is different....but w/e.....the brakes on proteges are NOT held on by an axle nut nor are they something special that needs to be removed a certain way....I stick with my first response, which should have been good enough considering you're on a mazda forum and I too have a protege and I did not say anything special is needed for changing brakes correct?

 

[jdoggsc]

I know the difference between the wheel hub and the rotor.

What? I have never heard about what you speak of...

Now you know. Just because you've never heard of it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

I stick with my first response, which should have been good enough considering you're on a mazda forum and I too have a protege and I did not say anything special is needed for changing brakes correct?

OMG get over yourself. You're not into statistics, are you? your population n=1 for proteges. My population n=1 as well. I'm not trying to fight with you, or say that your response isn't good enough. I'm entitled to speculate that possibly there's non-stock stuff on my car. that's all.

do your front rotors and hubs look exactly like this when they're together?

 

[IshSonP5]

lol. I am done trying to help you.

 

[talltim]

it is just rust. Spray it around the hub and tap on it with a hammer while pulling on one edge of the rotor. Within 5 minutes it will break loose. Yeah it is possible it was customized but I doubt it. I just did mine; all 4 were frozen on the hub.

 

[jdoggsc]

thank you.

 

[tweety2300]

If you look there's a small threaded hole in most rotors, put a bolt in that and tighten it with a ratchet it will pop off easily.

Just saying I have never personally seen a car that the rotor is held on by the axle nut, but the rotors on my 323 are behind the hub for some stupid reason, I hope I never have to replace them as the book calls for 4 hours per side

 

[jdoggsc]

If you look there's a small threaded hole in most rotors, put a bolt in that and tighten it with a ratchet it will pop off easily.

Just saying I have never personally seen a car that the rotor is held on by the axle nut, but the rotors on my 323 are behind the hub for some stupid reason, I hope I never have to replace them as the book calls for 4 hours per side

Excellent idea. I will definitely try that.

 

[jdoggsc]

If you look there's a small threaded hole in most rotors, put a bolt in that and tighten it with a ratchet it will pop off easily.

that worked perfectly! the front left had that hole, and it popped right off. no amount of hammering on it would do that for me, so that was amazing. It worked so well, actually, that I wanted to do it to the front right. The front right, however, did not have that bolt hole. I had to drill a hole in the rotor, tap the hole with treads, then thread in the bolt.

In case anyone is interested, this brake job is bigger than just replacing pads and rotors. Apparently one of the caliper sliding pins (the one that doesn't have the dust cap) is jammed, so the front left brake is constantly mashing the rotor and it gets hot. That would explain why one of the pads was almost gone, and the other pad was almost untouched. And possibly why the rotors were warped. (heat cycling, pushing only from one side, etc..) The pin is completely stuck. So I have to replace the entire caliper,mounting bracket assembly. yay. more unexpected expenses.

So for any perusing this form that notice that on their car the two brake pads on each side of a rotor aren't wearing approximately the same amount, you may have to try to lubricate the caliper pins. Maybe yours won't be jammed like mine.

 

[tweety2300]

Make sure you paint the caliper or it will rust and look like s***. Also if it keeps sticking like that it can cause the wheel bearing to go bad as well

 

[jdoggsc]

Make sure you paint the caliper or it will rust and look like s***. Also if it keeps sticking like that it can cause the wheel bearing to go bad as well

it's a reman from rockauto.com, so hopefully it will be painted already. If not, then thanks for the. Tip--I will definitely paint it to prevent rust.
As far as the wheel bearing, I can understand that. I was wondering yesterday after taking a test drive and feeling the whole brake assembly get super hot from the rotor. Always being pinched, if the bearing grease was boiling. I definitely imagine it could, which would degrade its lubricative properties.

 

[tweety2300]

It's probly raw iron, the only painted or powder coated ones I've seen are from Mazda

 

[Dermen]

I got a reman caliper that looked brand new, thought it had a nice coat of silver paint on it. Drove in the rain a few times and it was completely rusted.
I got brand new rear calipers and the same thing. So paint them if you don't want them to look like crap.

 

[Installshield 2]

3rd gen proteges are notorious for seizing calipers if you don't maintain them often (most owners don't). Those pins need to be cleaned and greased EVERY SINGLE TIME you replace the pads, and it is not a bad idea to do it more often than that if you don't drive very often.

On another note. its very unlikely that a seized caliper will damage the wheel bearing. Consider what is going on...If the caliper and rotor, and therefor hub, was getting hot enough to damage the wheel bearing...you'd notice a lot more than it simply being hot after a quick drive...the car would feel like you were driving around with the breaks on, right? Wheel bearings fail all on their own after normal use, so it is likely that they are in need of replacement...just stating it most likely wasn't caused by a seized caliper.

lastly...for a stuck rotor (assuming you don't have a bolt to extract it), always tap it away from the wheel well, if that makes sense. A few quick taps towards the center of the car will aid in breaking the rust loose...but the rotors fit completely flush against the hub face inside of them...so its not going to go anywhere from that direction...tapping gently from underneath; away from the strut body, on the 'inside' of the rotor will always do the trick...If you have a really stuck rotor, that you no you are going to replace, beat it with a large metal mallet. It will often dent and damage the rotor face, but if you know its not going to be used anymore...it won't matter...

 

[tweety2300]

The reason it causes them to go bad is because of the excess heat. It can and will produce enough heat to boil the brake fluid. The wheel bearings are not meant to withstand that much heat.

Pull your ebrake up enough to grab just a little bit and take it down the interstate and see what happens. It will produce about the same amount of heat and will make the wheel bearing fail after awhile