Considering P5

[The_big_dill]

Hi all,

So i have been hunting a P5 for a while now (over a year) and think I found something that works for me.

Only issue is that it has vibration in the front when breaking. The owner claims wheel bearings, but I do not think that bearings typically make noise when applying breaks.

I have dealt with worn bearings before, where I would hear a loud whine/hum when speed was in excess of 80 km/h. Replacing it was a PITA because of aluminum to iron bonding over age, the bearing was part of the hub and needed to be removed with an air chisel, this was on a Dodge Grand Caravan.

I understand that the front bearings are replaceable alone in these vehicles, how much of a PITA is it and will I need anything more than a bearing puller?

Furthermore, what else should I be very cautious of when buying the car? I mean serious issues that require substantial repair, I am getting the car cheap and obviously has rust and quite a bit of mileage, I am more concerned about issues like rotted strut towers and under body frame rust.

Cheers,

Phil.

 

[lowlevel]

Vibration when braking sounds like mainly a brake problem to me too... but if you do end up needing a bearing, make sure you get the mazda one from the dealer. Mine came with a bad bearing.. and it sounded awful just driving on it. Check for soft spots in the foot wells, and the strut towers as you suspect... The front doors tend to rot out along the bottom lip... and the rear fender arches tend to be pretty bad.

Interestingly enough... a lady I work with has a 2004 Mazda 3 that's doing MUCH worse for rust than my Protege5
Good luck!

 

[The_big_dill]

Vibration when braking sounds like mainly a brake problem to me too... but if you do end up needing a bearing, make sure you get the mazda one from the dealer. Mine came with a bad bearing.. and it sounded awful just driving on it. Check for soft spots in the foot wells, and the strut towers as you suspect... The front doors tend to rot out along the bottom lip... and the rear fender arches tend to be pretty bad.

Interestingly enough... a lady I work with has a 2004 Mazda 3 that's doing MUCH worse for rust than my Protege5
Good luck!

Thanks for the quick reply.

There is a good DIY on this website for the front bearing, I think his life would have been a lot easier if he froze the bearings overnight and heated the hub before putting in the bearing though. I wanted to know what other people thought about the situation with the "claimed" problem with front end vibration when breaking.

Why do you think I should get the bearings from the Mazda dealership? Rockauto has good brands for bearings like Timken and SKF.

I don't mind fixing rust on the car, so long as it isn't anything structural that needs major work, and thats the spots I am asking you guys. Thanks for the suggestion on the foot wells.

Finally, from observation, I noticed that the early 2004 models for Mazda 3s have a huge problem with rust around the rear wheel archs and trunk.

 

[lowlevel]

Thanks for the quick reply.

There is a good DIY on this website for the front bearing, I think his life would have been a lot easier if he froze the bearings overnight and heated the hub before putting in the bearing though. I wanted to know what other people thought about the situation with the "claimed" problem with front end vibration when breaking.

Why do you think I should get the bearings from the Mazda dealership? Rockauto has good brands for bearings like Timken and SKF.

I don't mind fixing rust on the car, so long as it isn't anything structural that needs major work, and thats the spots I am asking you guys. Thanks for the suggestion on the foot wells.

Finally, from observation, I noticed that the early 2004 models for Mazda 3s have a huge problem with rust around the rear wheel archs and trunk.

I've heard of early repeat failures on when using the aftermarket bearings.. I don't know how accurate this is since it's based on here-say but from what I understand, the original bearing was a non-sealed design, that relied on an external seal being installed on the back side of the knuckles.

The seal was deleted and the knuckle was revised for 2003 to have a drain notch in it at the bottom... The new bearing from mazda is definately a sealed unit, however I do not know for sure the old one wasn't.

For a $10 premium, I figure it's worth getting the OEM part in this case due to how much of a pain it is to change.

Here is a post I remember reading re:steps mazda took to solve the premature failure of the bearings that is so common on these cars...

the seal trapped water in there which caused wheel bearing corrosion and axles seizing into the hubs... mazda deleted the seal, and integrated the seal INTO the bearing itself (which WORKS) and notched a hole for water to drain

this is why ONLY OEM wheel bearings be installed on 02.5 thru 03s... aftermarket bearings DO NOT have this unique design and will FAIL... aftermarket bearings are bidirectional and do not have such a water seal on one side.... OEM bearings are unidirectional and do have the water seal



and to comment on the parts removal procedures.... how n00bish? there's an impact gun and it wasn't used to blast off the axle nut? rethreading the axle nut on and giving the axle end a couple of blows with a sledge hammer will pop it off the hub! there is also no need for any prying whatsoever in the ball joint and outer tierods! you hit the knuckle itself with a hammer next to where the tierod/ball joint goes in and it will pop off!

the axle nut is also NOT reusable and a new one should ALWAYS be used

 

[The_big_dill]

I've heard of early repeat failures on when using the aftermarket bearings.. I don't know how accurate this is since it's based on here-say but from what I understand, the original bearing was a non-sealed design, that relied on an external seal being installed on the back side of the knuckles.

The seal was deleted and the knuckle was revised for 2003 to have a drain notch in it at the bottom... The new bearing from mazda is definately a sealed unit, however I do not know for sure the old one wasn't.

For a $10 premium, I figure it's worth getting the OEM part in this case due to how much of a pain it is to change.

Here is a post I remember reading re:steps mazda took to solve the premature failure of the bearings that is so common on these cars...

Thanks for the quote, If they are referring to a shielded bearing, than aftermarket ones for the P5 have those. However, considering the price, I might as well, buy the OEM

Any other suggestions on what I should test on the car that is more common on the P5?

 

[lowlevel]

Thanks for the quote, If they are referring to a shielded bearing, than aftermarket ones for the P5 have those. However, considering the price, I might as well, buy the OEM

Any other suggestions on what I should test on the car that is more common on the P5?

I dunno... Oil pans rust out... EGR valves seize... rear wipers are often broken... or won't spray washer fluid... shocks leak all their fluid out.. motor mounts and suspension bushnigs/sway bar bushings are often worn... all kinds of stuff fails on a 11+year old car, check everything and pay as little as you can

 

[whatusername]

I dunno... Oil pans rust out... EGR valves seize... rear wipers are often broken... or won't spray washer fluid... shocks leak all their fluid out.. motor mounts and suspension bushnigs/sway bar bushings are often worn... all kinds of stuff fails on a 11+year old car, check everything and pay as little as you can

Low ur gonna scare the guy into not buying the car lol All that stuff he described happens to EVERY car just depends where u live.. as far as the vibration when braking its the rotors are warped u can have them turned or replace them with new pads and clips. rotors warp when u go thru a puddle with hot rotors from hard braking (hot metal + cold water= warping) if u gonna brake for a puddle do it in advanced and lightly not hard in front of it. the p5 is a fun car once u start modding it

 

[The_big_dill]

Low ur gonna scare the guy into not buying the car lol All that stuff he described happens to EVERY car just depends where u live.. as far as the vibration when braking its the rotors are warped u can have them turned or replace them with new pads and clips. rotors warp when u go thru a puddle with hot rotors from hard braking (hot metal + cold water= warping) if u gonna brake for a puddle do it in advanced and lightly not hard in front of it. the p5 is a fun car once u start modding it

Looking forward to it

Nothing is going to change my mind on this car for a first car, has been on my mind for 2 years now. I was just worried about damage that won't allow me to pass safety, such as a rotted frame.

Thanks for the replies guys, going to check it out today.

 

[Maroon]

RUUUUUUUUSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSTTTTTTTTT. This is not rust that you can fix. All cars have their specific rust areas. This car's rust area is everywhere. There's rust all over very critical impossible to reach areas. From your description of where the rust is, I would run far and fast from that car. I would not even consider buying one of these cars in your area. If you really want one, find one imported from Arizona.

Vibrations are likely just the brake rotors, but could also be a tie rod end or unbalanced wheel.

Wheel bearings on these cars are just like oil changes. Plan to do them regularly based on mileage. Aftermarket bearing are sealed just like OEM replacements so I'm not sure what the above post is about. You know when one is bad because it will sound like you're driving a truck on mud tires.

Oil burning. These engines have poor valve seals.

Motor mounts. bad and expensive.

Rear brakes. If you have to do them there's a snowball's chance in hell that you'll be able to adjust the piston. So plan on buying new calipers at $60 each.

Timing belt. Make sure you know whether or not it has been done prior to buying.

 

[lowlevel]

Looking forward to it

Nothing is going to change my mind on this car for a first car, has been on my mind for 2 years now. I was just worried about damage that won't allow me to pass safety, such as a rotted frame.

Thanks for the replies guys, going to check it out today.

I don't see many of them on the road these days... it was only around for 2 model years so I guess that makes sense... good luck and take some pics!

 

[kms1990]

take it by a reputable service shop in your area and pay their inspection fee and have it looked over, great bet to have a 2nd or 3rd opinion! the coil packs are a known weak area on these cars, but luckily not expensive and easy to replace, but a check engine light will come on if they are of issue. if you live in an area known for road salting or at a high rust risk area check it really well, my car has been a texas car its whole life, so i have nothing rusting except a few suspension pieces that rust anyway. as above and with any used car check it well, bring a tread depth gauge and check all 4 tires for even or close to it wear. check the idle feel, check the lights for function, check the switches and a/c for full functionality and cooling power, check the heat etc. the list goes on. these cars are very reliable i just was giving general used car advice. My p5 has been in the family since 04 and has been a great running, reliable car the whole time, and still is to this day.

 

[P-Funk!]

^very good advice!

I would suspect a warped rotor before a bad bearing...

 

[kms1990]

^very good advice!

I would suspect a warped rotor before a bad bearing...

same, especially if only while applying brakes

 

[The_big_dill]

Thanks for all the replies, glad to see there is a good community for these cars.

I went to see the car today and was worried that the colour has faded on the car, turns out it was just really dirty.

The engine and transmission are solid, at 220,000km, I started it from cold with no problem and pushed it to the red line after it warmed up and there wasn't even a hiccup, plenty of power throughout the rev range.

Timing belt has been replaced, but is due for another one now. Needs control arm ball joints as well as new rotors (which he said he will give me if I decide to buy it).

The big issue is the rust on the rear quarters, looks something like this: http://imageshack.us/scaled/medium/825/camerazoom2013042613454.jpg

However there is more of it along the quarter panel on both sides. No rust on the rear hatch though.

And yes, I understand this is a sign of rust elsewhere, but this is my first car and I hope it will last me for a couple of years.

All in all, I have a feeling I will get this car for a first car simply because of the price, a little more than what a scrap yard will give you for it, $500.

I am going to be doing all the work myself in a garage at home, and I do have experience repairing Dodge caravans haha (body, suspension, engine, etc.) so hopefully I will be alright with this car.

 

[kms1990]

it should last a couple years, take that rust off and touch up paint it up and keep it from coming back, your 1st car doesnt need to be pretty, just decently reliable. my first car was a ford escort, poop brown and ugly but ran good, had rust too.

 

[The_big_dill]

it should last a couple years, take that rust off and touch up paint it up and keep it from coming back, your 1st car doesnt need to be pretty, just decently reliable. my first car was a ford escort, poop brown and ugly but ran good, had rust too.

Extensive reading tells me that the inner fender area in the rear gets really rusty, I am planning to get a grinder and a welder.

This car will be on jack stands in my garage for several months, so I will be doing a lot of work on it.

Hopefully I can get away with a ton of fiberglass, If not, I will move onto welding.

 

[kms1990]

just saw u live in canada, im in texas so way south of and way warmer and less wet than your area. My p5 has almost no rust, nowhere that shouldnt rust is rusting on my car, no visible from outside, all thats rusted (and not even bad) are some bare metal 11 year old suspension parts that would rust on any car. in canada or northern usa i could see that being a big issue, the road salt and sand all the time along with a much wetter environment to keep it going and getting worse.

 

[lowlevel]

just saw u live in canada, im in texas so way south of and way warmer and less wet than your area. My p5 has almost no rust, nowhere that shouldnt rust is rusting on my car, no visible from outside, all thats rusted (and not even bad) are some bare metal 11 year old suspension parts that would rust on any car. in canada or northern usa i could see that being a big issue, the road salt and sand all the time along with a much wetter environment to keep it going and getting worse.

Yeah, some of the photo's on here of the southern cars make us Canadians crazy We're seeing 12 year old cars that have almost no rust, while ours are already rusting on the dealer lots up here when they're brand new. Oh well, it is what it is.

 

[kms1990]

yeah, i know sorry about that, newer cars should have better protection than these 12 year old ones though

 

[lowlevel]

The big issue is the rust on the rear quarters, looks something like this: http://imageshack.us/scaled/medium/825/camerazoom2013042613454.jpg

However there is more of it along the quarter panel on both sides. No rust on the rear hatch though.

And yes, I understand this is a sign of rust elsewhere, but this is my first car and I hope it will last me for a couple of years.

All in all, I have a feeling I will get this car for a first car simply because of the price, a little more than what a scrap yard will give you for it, $500.

You can probably patch it up and get a few years out of it... or just let it rust and drive it. Around here most of them are 10x worse than what was in that image... $500 sounds about right to me Best of luck