Attn: Phenolic Intake Manifold Thermal Insulators
- Thread starter mp3rican007
- Start date
deepcover6
Member
So anyone put the spacers on their MP3 or P5 yet.........?? Or are you all waiting for someone to be the guinea pig?? 
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I think the turbo guys would have them on by now, who knows...
I have (had) the IM spacer on my v6 Probe. After driving, I normally couldn't touch my IM without burning myself. Once I put these on, I could put my hand on there for a little bit before it hurt. And I didn't do the throttle body bypass, but I hear that does wonders(for the 6cyl at least). When your engine is cold, the coolant lines try to heat things up. I may look into these a bit later down the road.
Oh yeah..I was able to do it at home on my PGT, so this job on the 4cyl should be easier,.
Oh yeah..I was able to do it at home on my PGT, so this job on the 4cyl should be easier,.
slowyellowp5
Member
I might be alone on this but..something definately doesn't seem right here. If these things were so cheap, helped temps, MPG and performance that significantly, how come car manufactorers don't put them on all their cars? There has to be a downside. You always have to ask yourself before you do a mod why it's not there in the firstplace so you know the downsides. So, what's the reason with this thing?
slowyellowp5 said:
The reasoning is simple. Why would the car manufacturers spend the money when most people won't notice it? Actually, several of them used to use phenolic spacers between the carb and intake manifold years ago. They did this to avoid heat soak induced problems in carberation. So, the spacers work. I've looked at these things also and would think that they would work great. The engineering is sound and they have been used by OEM's before.
With the more modern fuel injection, there is no need for the OEM's to spend the money. The car can be made to run well without it, so they don't worry about a few extra HP and a few percentage points of fuel mileage. When you multiply the cost of these things times thousands of cars...you get the picture. It's all about the bottom line.
slowyellowp5
Member
Take a deep breath before reading this paragraph out loud to a friend:
It's true that anything you produce in mass quantities comes down to the pennies, I mean McDonald's using a different type of napkin or ketchup packet could save them millions of dollars a year. However, you must remember that also anything that you produce in mass quantity will be way cheaper (Costco's, anyone?) PLUS I'm sure companies like Mazda Nissan Toyota etc. have a few hook ups with that stuff...so you think that a sheet of metal like that would cost them like 20 bucks, maybe less who knows. And it's all about drawing the line somewhere. If you can spend 20 bucks on a car and have the rated MPG's go up from 26 CTY to 27 CTY it might even be worth it, since the sale of only a few cars for that reason would make up for it. And if it increases HP a little too, the same reasons...its all about the numbers, and the practicallity. So I can see why they don't make Ford Taurus's with optional twin turbos, but if this plate made a difference? I know I'm being difficult but it still sounds fishy, even with all this support it seems to be getting...
It's true that anything you produce in mass quantities comes down to the pennies, I mean McDonald's using a different type of napkin or ketchup packet could save them millions of dollars a year. However, you must remember that also anything that you produce in mass quantity will be way cheaper (Costco's, anyone?) PLUS I'm sure companies like Mazda Nissan Toyota etc. have a few hook ups with that stuff...so you think that a sheet of metal like that would cost them like 20 bucks, maybe less who knows. And it's all about drawing the line somewhere. If you can spend 20 bucks on a car and have the rated MPG's go up from 26 CTY to 27 CTY it might even be worth it, since the sale of only a few cars for that reason would make up for it. And if it increases HP a little too, the same reasons...its all about the numbers, and the practicallity. So I can see why they don't make Ford Taurus's with optional twin turbos, but if this plate made a difference? I know I'm being difficult but it still sounds fishy, even with all this support it seems to be getting...
Like I said. The OEM's used these for years. With the new engine management, they decided it was no longer cost effective. It's not a metal spacer it's a phenolic resin. It's more expensive than a metal spacer. When they were using them under carberators, it was a band-aid to help a carb work even though the engine temps were higher. With the modern engine management you don't have the need to insulate the fuel system since it is under pressure and injects when the ECU tells it to. Have you ever seen anyone at a track ice down an intake? Like, damn near everyone that races? That's the idea behind the resin spacers. The factory gasket transfers heat from the cylinder head to the intake manifold. With the resin spacer you don't get the heat transfer and therefore have a cooler intake manifold. Cooler manifold=denser air. You aren't going to get huge gains but it will make a difference in performance (1-2 HP maybe) and a little bit better fuel mileage.
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And if you are going all out, such as in racing, every little bit counts.
Traveller is right about this. MG used these things for awhile, so did Triumph I think.
They work, they aren't a waste of money and it is cheaper for the car companies to not use them now than in the past.
The bottom line is max profits, it doesn't make sense to put a part like this in every car if it means two or three more units sold simply because of the extra one or two horsepower or mpg.
Traveller is right about this. MG used these things for awhile, so did Triumph I think.
They work, they aren't a waste of money and it is cheaper for the car companies to not use them now than in the past.
The bottom line is max profits, it doesn't make sense to put a part like this in every car if it means two or three more units sold simply because of the extra one or two horsepower or mpg.
slowyellowp5
Member
Well, if that's the case...maybe I'll get one soon 
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slowyellowp5 said:Well, if that's the case...maybe I'll get one soon
I though I saw somewhere that you planned on going forced induction??
If you are I would probably recomend going with the spacers just to help with temps.
slowyellowp5
Member
So this would keep intake temps down by keeping the manifold from getting too hot?
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slowyellowp5 said:
They help prevent heat soak from the block. Basically, the air is heated in the intake manifold because it is getting hot from the head, which is warm from the block, etc...
The spacers help prevent some of the heat soak from the head to the intake manifold, which is transferred to the air insaide the manifold.
bring this back to life
Sorry to bring this back to life, but has anyone installed them yet?
I have heard great things about them, seen them in use on the KL-ZE and FS-ZE motors and they do make a tremendous difference in intake temperature.
My qustion is to those that have purchsed and installed them. Did you do it yourself? How long? Any tricks or tips?
Secondly, doesn't the position of the fuel injectors get "moved out" a bit, once the spacer is installed?
I'd love to hear how it went.
Jason
www.TOProtege.com
Sorry to bring this back to life, but has anyone installed them yet?
I have heard great things about them, seen them in use on the KL-ZE and FS-ZE motors and they do make a tremendous difference in intake temperature.
My qustion is to those that have purchsed and installed them. Did you do it yourself? How long? Any tricks or tips?
Secondly, doesn't the position of the fuel injectors get "moved out" a bit, once the spacer is installed?
I'd love to hear how it went.
Jason
www.TOProtege.com
bump
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syn_lube_nut
Member
To the gentleman who wrote about why OEM dont use thermal spacers in production cars, heres why:
You have to understand how production costs work (and i aint got the time or space to discuss that in whole) and it would NOT cost them $20 for a piece of metal (which these spacer, last time i checked are not metal but, are a composite of some sort), more like cents. They also use outsourcing to make their cars. This lowers cost and raises profit margins and when doing so the penny pinchers will always look at places to cut costs and this would be one of them.
The cars today run fine in almost every single case and never need one for the life of the engine that the manufacturer has determined they pretty much want. Remember, this part could actually in some minute way increase engine life and they DO want you to buy another car from them to keep profits. Ita all a money game and you jsut will not see something like this anymore on cars. But back in the ole' carb days, it was more common because of heat soak. GM cars still have probs w/ heat soak to this day for some odd reason, esp. their starters(off topic).
If a(n) manufactuer EVER used one of these things, it would have to be used on like ALL of their engines due tot he increased costs to have one put on say, on an Mazdaspeed Protege'. By only making a few for a few production cars, more money on labour will wasted because the engines would have to be further seperated on the line, thus, increasing costs and so on. This is a very brief explanation and Im sure there are some areas that SOMEONE will pick over and say Im wrong but, oh well....
You have to understand how production costs work (and i aint got the time or space to discuss that in whole) and it would NOT cost them $20 for a piece of metal (which these spacer, last time i checked are not metal but, are a composite of some sort), more like cents. They also use outsourcing to make their cars. This lowers cost and raises profit margins and when doing so the penny pinchers will always look at places to cut costs and this would be one of them.
The cars today run fine in almost every single case and never need one for the life of the engine that the manufacturer has determined they pretty much want. Remember, this part could actually in some minute way increase engine life and they DO want you to buy another car from them to keep profits. Ita all a money game and you jsut will not see something like this anymore on cars. But back in the ole' carb days, it was more common because of heat soak. GM cars still have probs w/ heat soak to this day for some odd reason, esp. their starters(off topic).
If a(n) manufactuer EVER used one of these things, it would have to be used on like ALL of their engines due tot he increased costs to have one put on say, on an Mazdaspeed Protege'. By only making a few for a few production cars, more money on labour will wasted because the engines would have to be further seperated on the line, thus, increasing costs and so on. This is a very brief explanation and Im sure there are some areas that SOMEONE will pick over and say Im wrong but, oh well....
