Abs..
- Thread starter Jliao
- Start date
Anything is Possible...
Since ABS (& Side Airbags) are a factory installed option, the dealers will not have a "kit" to install it like the accessories.
You could order all of the parts through the dealer's parts department, but you would have to know what parts to order and it will be horrifically expensive.
I doubt that you could find the parts in a salvage yard and even if you could, they would be nearly the same price as new because of the newness of the vehicle.
Then there is the labor to have it all installed if you can't do it yourself.
I'd bet it would be cheaper to trade your current P5 in on a new one with ABS.
If you have enough money.Jliao said:
Since ABS (& Side Airbags) are a factory installed option, the dealers will not have a "kit" to install it like the accessories.
You could order all of the parts through the dealer's parts department, but you would have to know what parts to order and it will be horrifically expensive.
I doubt that you could find the parts in a salvage yard and even if you could, they would be nearly the same price as new because of the newness of the vehicle.
Then there is the labor to have it all installed if you can't do it yourself.
I'd bet it would be cheaper to trade your current P5 in on a new one with ABS.
Why? I mean honestly WHY??
I hate ABS, never liked it and its pretty useless on such a light car. Good learned driver with proper brake control and just effectively stop our cars. ABS on most cars is just a way to increase the selling price while not giving people a false sense of safety.
Bleh ABS.
But to each their own I guess.
I hate ABS, never liked it and its pretty useless on such a light car. Good learned driver with proper brake control and just effectively stop our cars. ABS on most cars is just a way to increase the selling price while not giving people a false sense of safety.
Bleh ABS.
But to each their own I guess.
Old people, sheesh.REMillers said:Why? I mean honestly WHY??
I hate ABS, never liked it and its pretty useless on such a light car. Good learned driver with proper brake control and just effectively stop our cars. ABS on most cars is just a way to increase the selling price while not giving people a false sense of safety.
Bleh ABS.
But to each their own I guess.
I kid, I have no idea of your age. ABS, as a feature alone (ignoring dealer markup), is beneficial. It makes a hell of a difference on any car, especially in poor road conditions. I come from a racing family of two generations. It took the "old fogies" a lot of bitching and time to come around, a lot of that "if you're a good driver you dont need it" crap. The simple fact is a computer can control braking pressure about a million times better than we can. Even if you have mastered pressure/release braking to avoid locking, you are still locking more than a computer will, and your steering suffers because of it. It takes some getting used to, and it cannot make the roads dry or safe, but it is a driver assistance feature.
Sorry to thread jack.
cjstringer
Member
ABS blows.
Flawed Logic
Face it. 90+% of the vehicle operators out there are neither good nor learned and don't possess decent braking control. ABS with EBD can effectively prevent that initial skid that can throw a car out of control.
Yesterday, I was going to work on an Eway at 70+ mph just flowing with traffic when the line in front of me checked up suddenly. I tapped the brakes (even though I had assured clear distance in front of me) to alert the driver behind. My '97 Civic without ABS instantly yawed to the left toward the guardrail. I easily corrected and never was in danger of hitting anything or losing it completely, but ABS would have prevented that first slide.
REMillers said:
Face it. 90+% of the vehicle operators out there are neither good nor learned and don't possess decent braking control. ABS with EBD can effectively prevent that initial skid that can throw a car out of control.
Yesterday, I was going to work on an Eway at 70+ mph just flowing with traffic when the line in front of me checked up suddenly. I tapped the brakes (even though I had assured clear distance in front of me) to alert the driver behind. My '97 Civic without ABS instantly yawed to the left toward the guardrail. I easily corrected and never was in danger of hitting anything or losing it completely, but ABS would have prevented that first slide.
Indeed the majority of drivers probably gain some control from the usage of ABS, just not something I like. Course I enjoy road course racing where in a ABS I actually do worst, it lessen the degree of feel to me.
I've tap, slammed, and varied degree of braking and never gotten the P5 sideway or squirrely, expect on purpose.
I've tap, slammed, and varied degree of braking and never gotten the P5 sideway or squirrely, expect on purpose.
I can live with or without ABS. Brakes don't stop the car, tire's do, so making a broad statement like ABS sucks is suspect.
Is there a way to turn the ABS off? On my Integra I pull the E brake 2 clicks (just to turn the E-brake light on), drive a few meters and the ABS disables it's self. Turn the car off and ABS comes back. I've tried this on my P5 and it didn't work.
Here's some info I fould re: EBD URL=http://www.hha.com.sa/veh/mazda/6/safety.asp?s=4]Link[/URL]
Does anyone else have more detailed EBD nfo?
Is there a way to turn the ABS off? On my Integra I pull the E brake 2 clicks (just to turn the E-brake light on), drive a few meters and the ABS disables it's self. Turn the car off and ABS comes back. I've tried this on my P5 and it didn't work.
Here's some info I fould re: EBD URL=http://www.hha.com.sa/veh/mazda/6/safety.asp?s=4]Link[/URL]
Does anyone else have more detailed EBD nfo?
Tires are another component in the stopping power of a car combine with suspension etc. They all inter-relate to some degree.
The comparison of ABS sucks is not in relation to the overall braking of a car, but more to the difference between a ABS and Non-ABS. To me Non-abs is more suited for me with our cars. The only thing I really liked ABS on was my commuter VAN, cause of the weight and handling of that beast.
The comparison of ABS sucks is not in relation to the overall braking of a car, but more to the difference between a ABS and Non-ABS. To me Non-abs is more suited for me with our cars. The only thing I really liked ABS on was my commuter VAN, cause of the weight and handling of that beast.
ghetto waggon
Member
- :
- 2003 Protege5, Yellow.
ABS & Side air package
With my insurance, you get about $150 off per year, so it pays for itself in the long run. With the package only costing $4-500, you'd end up getting the SRS side air (basically little pillows for your head) for free.
Unless you can't bear the "pulsey" feeling of the ABS, then I think it's stupid not to get it.
One late night I was driving the old '90 Dodge dynasty through the rain and sleet, and blew right through the new light they installed in the area. All I can say is I wish I had it- luckily I just slid up into the grass.
You just might wish you had it after the crash, when you're in the hospital bed all tied up and 'ol bootsy who s**** in a bag is laying there in the bed next to you.
Just my $0.02
With my insurance, you get about $150 off per year, so it pays for itself in the long run. With the package only costing $4-500, you'd end up getting the SRS side air (basically little pillows for your head) for free.
Unless you can't bear the "pulsey" feeling of the ABS, then I think it's stupid not to get it.
One late night I was driving the old '90 Dodge dynasty through the rain and sleet, and blew right through the new light they installed in the area. All I can say is I wish I had it- luckily I just slid up into the grass.
You just might wish you had it after the crash, when you're in the hospital bed all tied up and 'ol bootsy who s**** in a bag is laying there in the bed next to you.
Just my $0.02
twilightprotege
Member
- :
- 2001 323 Astina SP20 (P5)
hey
imo abs is worth every cent. it mightnt feel good to brake hard, it mightnt be "cool"...but you're stopping in the quickest distance you possibly can.
later
imo abs is worth every cent. it mightnt feel good to brake hard, it mightnt be "cool"...but you're stopping in the quickest distance you possibly can.
later
ghetto waggon
Member
- :
- 2003 Protege5, Yellow.
if I recall correctly, the standard hydraulic brakes do actually stop in a shorter distance than the ABS. The difference in distance is not that signifigant, under 15' (I think).
Though, ABS' strong point is the fact that you can control where you go while you are stopping.
It's obviously possible to get better at your stopping style, on regular brakes, how exactly? I dont know. I figure its a bit like practicing snow driving. Too bad nothing has come along to fix all of our snow driving problems yet
Though, ABS' strong point is the fact that you can control where you go while you are stopping.
It's obviously possible to get better at your stopping style, on regular brakes, how exactly? I dont know. I figure its a bit like practicing snow driving. Too bad nothing has come along to fix all of our snow driving problems yet
ghetto waggon
Member
- :
- 2003 Protege5, Yellow.
My question for everyone is:
Since I already have the ABS, and later might want to upgrade the brakes (possibly slotted rotors, maybe even big brake upgrade)
I figure simply new rotors would not affect it.
But would the ABS System be compatable with new brake calipers?
Since I already have the ABS, and later might want to upgrade the brakes (possibly slotted rotors, maybe even big brake upgrade)
I figure simply new rotors would not affect it.
But would the ABS System be compatable with new brake calipers?
twilightprotege
Member
- :
- 2001 323 Astina SP20 (P5)
hey
milmoejoe, i'm trying to find that out myself actually. stoptech say that their big rotor kit for the front is still abs compatible.
they should still be compatible no matter what you do, but it's definately worth chasing up.
i'm planning on a set of ap racing calipers (4 piston at the front and 2 piston at the back) with 295mm rotors at the front, 280/285 at the rear, slotted. i'll probably have to upgrade the master cylinder at the same time, not sure.
later
milmoejoe, i'm trying to find that out myself actually. stoptech say that their big rotor kit for the front is still abs compatible.
they should still be compatible no matter what you do, but it's definately worth chasing up.
i'm planning on a set of ap racing calipers (4 piston at the front and 2 piston at the back) with 295mm rotors at the front, 280/285 at the rear, slotted. i'll probably have to upgrade the master cylinder at the same time, not sure.
later
A Bit of Factual Evidence.
When Car & Driver Magazine tested the preproduction MSP without ABS, the car stopped from 70 mph in 183 feet on 215/45ZR-17 tires. Their road test of the 2001 MP3 recorded a 70-0 stop average of 184 feet. C&D's test of a 2002 P5 with ABS stopped from 70 mph ten feet shorter in 173 feet on 195/50VR-tires. A 10 foot delta may not seem like much, but the P5 has smaller, lower performance tires, smaller brake rotors front and rear, lower performance pads, and weighs a bit more.
I'll take an extra 10 feet (or more) in an emergency any day, regardless of the extra cost.
While the difference in stopping distances between a non-ABS and ABS equipped cars will vary with several factors, here's an example that's pretty close to home.milmoejoe said:
When Car & Driver Magazine tested the preproduction MSP without ABS, the car stopped from 70 mph in 183 feet on 215/45ZR-17 tires. Their road test of the 2001 MP3 recorded a 70-0 stop average of 184 feet. C&D's test of a 2002 P5 with ABS stopped from 70 mph ten feet shorter in 173 feet on 195/50VR-tires. A 10 foot delta may not seem like much, but the P5 has smaller, lower performance tires, smaller brake rotors front and rear, lower performance pads, and weighs a bit more.
I'll take an extra 10 feet (or more) in an emergency any day, regardless of the extra cost.
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ghetto waggon
Member
- :
- 2003 Protege5, Yellow.
Good to know- 
If and when I upgrade the brakes, I would rather get nicer slotted rotors, and just put some new pads on. I just hit 300 miles on the odometer today, so no real rush to start playing games with the braking system.
The OEM brakes on the PR5 are awesome brakes...I'm not positive there'd be a whole lot of improvement for
slotted rotor upgrade vs. full brake replacement
....You know what they say, 10% of the money buys 90% of the product. At that point you have to stop and think if you have more money than brains, and want to spend $4,000 for sweet brakes.
But hey, who knows...maybe i'll land that awesome job that pays six figures while I'm still in school. 'Till then, I might just have to be happy with the awesome brakes on the car.
The only thing that bothers me is the constant rusting :mad:
It sure doesn't add to the sexy looks of a new yellow Mp5
If and when I upgrade the brakes, I would rather get nicer slotted rotors, and just put some new pads on. I just hit 300 miles on the odometer today, so no real rush to start playing games with the braking system.
The OEM brakes on the PR5 are awesome brakes...I'm not positive there'd be a whole lot of improvement for
slotted rotor upgrade vs. full brake replacement
....You know what they say, 10% of the money buys 90% of the product. At that point you have to stop and think if you have more money than brains, and want to spend $4,000 for sweet brakes.
But hey, who knows...maybe i'll land that awesome job that pays six figures while I'm still in school. 'Till then, I might just have to be happy with the awesome brakes on the car.
The only thing that bothers me is the constant rusting :mad:
It sure doesn't add to the sexy looks of a new yellow Mp5
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Donuts in a FWD car? That is what you are worried about? Grow up. Lets not bring up the people that died in California because of the punks doing donuts in their mustangs in camaros in the middle of the street. Its a waste of time and a waste of tires and a waste of life.
If thats what you want to do with your car, buy an old camaro and go to a demolision derby.
If thats what you want to do with your car, buy an old camaro and go to a demolision derby.
Just HAD to hop in there didnt you.cjstringer said:ABS blows.
My cars have been split between ABS and non. The big advantage to me is emergency situations and braking while cornering. For track driving, on a wet track ABS is good for some, and hinders others. Dry track racing, I want no part of the ABS.
As for modifying your cars, the calipers, etc are all the same. The heart of ABS is in the computer that controls brake pressure. The "shudder" you feel is the computer overriding your own input on the brake pedal. Changing rotors or pads will not render the ABS ineffective by itself. By its nature ABS is designed to adapt to changing conditions. It will cope as best it can with whatever changes you make to the wheel and rotors.
Of course ABS makes do with what it has. You CAN render it de facto ineffective if you ruin the braking system by using substandard parts If you stick on a part that ruins braking anyway, ABS is not going to be able to help.
