Would you guys like a complete how-to on audio here at the forums?

[chuyler1]

Go Pro or Go on your own?
I'm not thrilled about this section. You need to stress the difference between big-box store installers and pro-audio shop installers. Dropping your car off at Best Buy and expecting a Pro-install is a pipe dream. Unless you drive a honda civic (aka, the same car as the ghetto fabulous installer who makes $5/hr) you are putting your car at great risk because the installer in many cases has never dealt with it before putting him in the same situation as you. The only difference is that he doesn't have us as a resource. So anyone that mentions "budget" in their post should be considering doing the work themselves and that's why we are here...to help them through it.

Budgets, Max watts, Distortion?
You say alot of words in this but you don't say anything concrete...and these topics don't belong in the same category. Step 1 is to set a budget, I'll agree on that. But the person doesn't have to know anything about watts or distortion to know how much money they are willing to spend. Max watts is something you can discuss when choosing amplifiers and speakers. Saying distortion is the only thing they need to worry about is deceptive. There many things that can destroy speakers and distortion is just one of them. In fact, the only speakers you would accidentally destroy due to distortion are subwoofers because you don't usually recognize what it sounds like and therefore you don't turn it down.

The rest...
If someone doesn't know their car runs on 12v electricity they most likely don't know that internet forums exist. I have yet to come across someone that didn't understand 12v power and grounding and I've been frequenting audio forums since 1998. Sure there are people that don't understand what a ground loop is or why they are getting alternator whine (or what alternator whine even is) but most of those people have already figured out that the red wire connects to the battery and the black wire connects to the chassis.

Instead of coaxial/comonent you should have a general section that simply states "Choosing the right speakers for your budget". It should also reference our rear speaker discussion.

However, before choosing speakers, there should be discussion about the head unit, whether they need to upgrade it, and why the should or shouldn't upgrade it based on their budget. Following head unit talk should be amplifier talk. What to amplify and how much power you can afford. Finally speakers can be discussed. Now many audiophiles will tell you to choose the speakers first but I have found with people on a budget, it is best to choose the amplifier first (since it will cost more) and narrow down the speaker selection to ones that will match the amplifier. The same applies to subwoofers. Everyone wants a 2000w subwoofer until they realize the cost of a 2000w amp, 0ga wiring kit, new battery, and H/O alternator.

 

[fourthmeal]

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[chuyler1]

Sounds good to me. I actually started working on a "Car Audio on a Budget" themed web page a while back. I don't know if I still have it because my hard drive crashed a few months ago. It basically went through choosing the right gear for various budgets. Instead of posting it, I just started the $500 challenge since that is about as cheap as you can go and still get quality components and sound.

 

[zoom-zoomhatch]

I wouldn't mind a sticky with some general and basic audio knowledge. That's usually one of the least of my worries cause the stock radio is fine by me but after I run out of mods I want for my car(or get tired of waiting on them to come out) upgrading my stereo might become somewhat of a concern down the line.

 

[clos561]

Woah!

Not trying to be conceited, or full of anything, except help. If I can stop someone from frying their amp, (or their new car), I'm gonna try!

Bottom line, it SCARES me when I think of what little some people know about audio, so if it helps people, then let it. I just feel strongly about some things in life, and one of those things is clean, clear, and powerful music. I'm a raver, clubber, and all that. So, music that moves me is critical to me. Distortion is my enemy.

My credentials are that I once owned a small shop "PerformanceEDGE" in KC, MO (it failed, my co-partner quit 1/2 way through), I've worked for years at Ultimate Electronics, and I'm good at training and educating people in a simple, yet technical way, usually through analogies, and education stepped "levels"


BTW, I read my post over and over, from different points of view, trying to find where you saw me conceited. Other then concern and a statement about what I read someone wrote, I'd like you tell me how you came to that conclusion. In a constructive way, please.

Anyway, if you think its worth doing, I'll work on drafting it now, and should have it done by tomorrow or tonight, depending on how in-depth I figure I can get without losing people who are new to the hobby. I think I can get pretty deep though, and not freak people out.

Lemmie know..

never fried a amp....never will...always buy best audio and i know what im doing...i like low freq...stuf that u can barely hear...shakes the whole car and makes ur ears hurt...thats the bass i go for....300 dollars for a 4000 watt amp that will definitly blow some speakers you may recomend for me....i go big.... and there is another amp by the same company...5000 wats 2500x2 at 1/2 ohm get on my lvl

 

[fourthmeal]

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[chuyler1]

fourthmeal, I tend to just ignore posts like those in hopes that they will go away.

eD has an iffy past that members of this board like to remind us of. I have been keeping my eye on their latest products and it looks like they are coming out with some decent equipment and there are lots of happy custmers...however their shady past will keep me from buying them in the short term at least. I guess I'm just neutral about the whole eD thing right now. I won't recommend them and I won't buy them...but I won't talk s*** about them (other than this comment which is about as neutral as I can make it).

 

[fourthmeal]

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[chuyler1]

The only change to your design I would recommend is switching the subs and amps so the subs are at the back of the car. This in effect corner loads them (when the hatch is down) and minimizes cancelation. I experimented with various locations for my 8"s before I came up with this design...

FYI, the floor I built is about 4.5" tall. My eclipse subs aren't slim so I used the spare tire well (I have no spare). Oh, and once you put that much audio equipment in your car...getting the spare out would be almost impossible. My floor comes out...but it is very, VERY, heavy.

 

[fourthmeal]

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[clos561]

your "lvl" is so misguided and wrong, I can't help you.

Go ask one of the audio moderators of this site and see what they can do for you.

Or, learn everything you need to learn (by forgetting what you think you know, because the more you post, the less informed you sound) by visiting this audio knowledge website. Start at the beginning, and read the whole thing through. If, after reading and learning all that the site has to offer,...if you still believe what you do now, well then I guess I'll just have to let you do your thing, and be on your 'lvl".

Oh, and if you think you can get 4000 Watts out of a $300 amp, you don't understand the concept of RMS, PEAK, or WLSI ratings. These are things that will truly help you if you actually do want powerful, deep bass. I personally, on a very intense level, feel that you are incredibly ignorant (not stupid, ignorance is not the same thing, so don't go a fightin') and hard headed, and the only way to help you (since you often ask questions about such things as audio) is to persuade you into learning the truth about audio, and its core properties. Thats what the above mentioned website will do for you. So, please, read it, and re-read it.

Meanwhile, since you asked about a decent slim-line subwoofer, I'll tell you that a company called Elemental Designs has an SQ subwoofer that is probably ideal for slim mounting choices. It doesn't have a lot of power handling capability, and doesn't play extremely low. But, it is one of the best slim-line subs currently available on the market. You can find their site here

I will be running two of those in the trunk of my MS3 as soon as possible, and I'll report the performance when its done. BTW, if you want a good, honest 1000W sub amp (running at 1 ohm stable, mono), their NINe.1 amp is excellent.






The WLSI rating is "When Lightning Strikes It". Because thats what it takes for a $300 amp to produce 4000 Watts.

i know how to buy audio...and my system will definitely be louder and clearer than yours any day. regagrdless of your know how. im a WORLD CHAMPION..

 

[Mr. 4500 RPM]

The only change to your design I would recommend is switching the subs and amps so the subs are at the back of the car. This in effect corner loads them (when the hatch is down) and minimizes cancelation. I experimented with various locations for my 8"s before I came up with this design...

FYI, the floor I built is about 4.5" tall. My eclipse subs aren't slim so I used the spare tire well (I have no spare). Oh, and once you put that much audio equipment in your car...getting the spare out would be almost impossible. My floor comes out...but it is very, VERY, heavy.

how long did it take you to make something like this? i kinda want something like this in my car

 

[chuyler1]

I couldn't tell you how many hours it took because it was a one-man job done in spare time. I probably could have pulled it off in a week or two had I been devoting full-time to it. It involves quite a bit of sanding if you want the smooth look of fiberglass. Check out my build-up thread for more info:
http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?t=118918&page=7

Fourthmeal,
The weakest link in your system will most definitely be using the factory radio. I tried using a LOC for a while and it sounded pretty decent...until I sat in my wife's car and listened to the system I put in her car. There is so much detail that you will be missing and it won't do justice to the speakers you choose. You can try it out at first, but I urge you to plan around upgrading the HU eventually.

If you must keep the spare tire, I think going with those slim subs is probably the best way to maximize useable hatch space. My only regret with the way my hatch is set up is that I can't fit a paper grocery bag underneath the cargo tray. They stick up an inch or two so that the cargo tray doesn't lie flat. Other than that, it is perfect...well it will be perfect once I cut and carpet the final piece that goes over it. Right now I just put a blanket over the whole thing.

As far as signal processing goes. There are several really good head units out there that have on-board EQs (check out Eclipse, Clarion, Pioneer, and Alpine). There is also the Rockford Fosgate 360 and PPI has a new processor that is pretty robust.

Start a new thread if you want help picking out equipment n stuff. We're getting a bit off-topic here.

 

[fourthmeal]

off topic? oh, i did that to avoid the flak...

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[chuyler1]

A. can't help you there...but people have dealt with it in different ways. Some install new displays and others modify the panel so it doesn't show any more.

B. Most name-brand units such as Alpine have modules to allow the use of factory steering wheel controls

C. You've got me there. The kits never quite look the same but its a sacrifice I am usually willing to make in the same of SQ.

 

[Poseur]

Just because it's my job, I would like to HIGHY dissuade you from dealing with eD. the reason you see everything happy and peachy there isthat they control all of their sites, and have TONS of mindless sheep who edit posts regularly to make sure they look good. They are a SHADY business who knows how to market well to people who know a touch more than the average consumer, but not enough more to sift through their marketing hype. readup on them at ANY board not controleld by them and the truth will be very evident.

Personally the next time I'm anywhre enear the area, I WILL indeed track down ben and deficate on and hopefully in his car. Why? because I championed his products and helped mindlessly push them for a LONG time, helped people in thier forums sort out problems, educated LOTS of them, and what happens when I have defective speakers? warranty denied, rip on me publically, delete any incriminating evidence, edit MY posts, etcetc.

It's a VERY shady company... yes they make thigns that look appealing, but be VERY wary...

and as for their amps... they're great if you don't mind sending them in for warranty work every couplefew months.

Edit;

Oklay so I realized we'd been over this in the proper audio forum, but I'm leaving it up incase someone should stumble upon this thread as well. My apologies for redundancy

 

[chuyler1]

For a moment, I thought eD might have had something going with their new slim 10" subwoofer (SQ10). That was until I found out that Tang Band developed a prototype for them (available now at PartsExpress) and eD ripped off the design because they didn't want to pay for exclusive rights to it. I don't know how true it is...but it is a pretty detailed story for someone to just make it up. So the saga continues with them.

It makes me wonder about the industry. If Ben can do such a piss poor job with eD, shouldn't a more trustworthy business person be able to design and make a speaker line that is sold exclusively online and come out on top? I guess CDT might fall into that category...they boast magic crossovers and people buy it.

Poseur, you should write a wikipedia entry on Ben and eD. Look up "alpine car audio" and use it as a template.

 

[fourthmeal]

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