Winter tires - Having issues!

[mp5diva]

Wow. Okay, so it's been quite awhile since I've posted here!

Doubt anyone really remembers me, but I did have a interesting question! Being as how I'm stuck in cow town Ellensburg compliments of my husband (yeah, we finally tied the knot on the 31st of July) while he's in college here at CWU. I discovered that a "mild" winter over here is 16" of snow! (wow)

Needless to say, I definately have to get snow tires for over here.. But according to what Mazda USA said when my mother in law called, since they discontinued the MP5, the size of tires that were on the car were specially designed just for the MP5.. And since the car was discontinued, as are the tires. Apparently no one carries the tires for my car, so what do I do? I can't afford rims to get different tires - so anyone have any suggestions??

Or know of anywhere (on either side of the pass') that carries the tires I need? I want studded tires, but I have a feeling that isn't going to happen and I'm going to get stuck with friggen chains.

 

[Poseur]

Hey, Jess, how ya been. You looking for studs to fit the stock rims? I dunno what the hell "special sized discontinued" bulls*** line they were giving you. In reality, you were jsut asking for 195/50/16 snowtires, right? I went through this lastyear myself, and wound up ordering a set of studless mounted on steelies from the net. Got a full set for $400 which is likely about as good'a deal as you're gonna get for anything anywhere.

Check out tires.com YOu'll prolly wind up having to call and ask. You SHOULD be able to get a full setup with some cheap 14 or 15"steelies for less than what you can get stock-sized tires mounted for. I recommend getting a slight over-size. (for example mine are 185/65/15 instead of 185/60/15) the extra 5 in the sidewall adds some ride height, changes your gearing for the better in low traction, and gives you more cushion in the event of a slide into a curb. Other sizes that'd work well are 185/70/14 or 175/75/14. Here's a decent tire, they SHOULD have rims to fit, and they generally run in the $30-$40 each range The price for those doesn't include studding, but they'll do it. I cna't recall exactly what that runs, but your'e still sitting at 4billsish.
http://www.discounttiredirect.com/direct/findTireDetail.do?sw=true&cs=185&pc=11680&rd=15&ar=65
here's some 14's
http://www.discounttiredirect.com/direct/findTireDetail.do?sw=true&cs=185&pc=11675&rd=14&ar=70

Also, is there a particular reason you want studs? I've been astounded by how well studless work. Really, though where do you drive? you head over the pass much? the winters do bring snow 'round these parts, yes. but 16" is pretty uncommon. generally especially lately it's pretty damn manageable unless you do head up over the hills.

 

[Poseur]

Actually I just remembered I got mine from tirerack. they charge for shipping but they're MUCH easier to deal with, nicer, etc. http://www.tirerack.com/tires/Compare1.jsp?startIndex=0&width=185%2F&ratio=65&diameter=15&search=true&pagelen=20&pagenum=1&pagemark=1&x=10&y=9&performance=W
rims in 15" black for a P5 are $38 each, totalling $152. add that to say 4 winterforce tires from that link, and you're at$348. Shipping'll prolly run about $70-80.

Just to compare to mounting up snows to your stock rims. Even getting fairly cheap tires from the rack, http://www.tirerack.com/tires/Compa...0&pagenum=1&pagemark=1&x=19&y=9&performance=W
those are 77 each. which is $308, shipping won't be toomuch different, and by the time you find someone to mount and balance them, they're likely gonna charge you about $20 each to mount and balance, you've for one gone through more hassle, and quite likely paid alot more. PLUS with winter steelis on, you don't have to worry about messing up your nice wheels either on hidden curbs/etc or with jsut general winter roadgrime.

One thing, if you want them, do it ASAP. stock'll be dropping fast I know that the tires I was initially gonna get went form lots in stock to none left in the week it took me to get the $ together for it.

Lemmie know if you need more help breaking it down. But I've been delaing with eastside winters for quite awhile now. I snowboard way toomuch for my own good, and have driven to colorado in the middle of the winter alot, so I'm quite familiar with snowtires. It's always been most effective to go the steelie route.

 

[Mazda P5 driver]

Wow. Okay, so it's been quite awhile since I've posted here!

Doubt anyone really remembers me, but I did have a interesting question! Being as how I'm stuck in cow town Ellensburg compliments of my husband (yeah, we finally tied the knot on the 31st of July) while he's in college here at CWU. I discovered that a "mild" winter over here is 16" of snow! (wow)

Needless to say, I definately have to get snow tires for over here.. But according to what Mazda USA said when my mother in law called, since they discontinued the MP5, the size of tires that were on the car were specially designed just for the MP5.. And since the car was discontinued, as are the tires. Apparently no one carries the tires for my car, so what do I do? I can't afford rims to get different tires - so anyone have any suggestions??

Or know of anywhere (on either side of the pass') that carries the tires I need? I want studded tires, but I have a feeling that isn't going to happen and I'm going to get stuck with friggen chains.

Toyo's winter tires fit our car, maybe plus size to 205??

 

[Poseur]

205=bad idea for the snow. plus size is fine, but NOT in width. width floats you more up away from the ground. Ideally you want a taller narrower tire. so Plus in the sidewall, not the width.

There's a couplefew options in stock size if you still feel like going thatway, but you'll endup paying more than you would to just get steelies, plus a 14 or 15" setup would be better for winter anyway.

 

[Mazda P5 driver]

205=bad idea for the snow. plus size is fine, but NOT in width. width floats you more up away from the ground. Ideally you want a taller narrower tire. so Plus in the sidewall, not the width.

There's a couplefew options in stock size if you still feel like going thatway, but you'll endup paying more than you would to just get steelies, plus a 14 or 15" setup would be better for winter anyway.

hahahahahah umm ok...

IF you had a car with 225's would you drop to a lower width for snow? If so, how low? 215 205 195's? I think that argument is a joke.

I guess an SUV should drop to 175 90 13's?

just because our cars came with 195's does not mean we have to drop to a damned skinnier tire. It's called independent thinking, try it sometime.

Why don't you ride a bicycle then?

 

[mp5diva]

205=bad idea for the snow. plus size is fine, but NOT in width. width floats you more up away from the ground. Ideally you want a taller narrower tire. so Plus in the sidewall, not the width.

There's a couplefew options in stock size if you still feel like going thatway, but you'll endup paying more than you would to just get steelies, plus a 14 or 15" setup would be better for winter anyway.

Hey Paul! Thanks for the information. My mother-in-law apparently ended up finding a place out in Puyallup that had some studless snow tires for the MP5. I cannot remember the #'s for the tire right now, but they're made by a manufacturer called Hancock I believe. Cost about $400 to put the tires on the alloy rims and balance it. Feels so weird to drive my car now, 'cos the tires are so soft.

No drifting the car in the snow for me I guess. :'(

By the way, how's Danielle doing?

 

[Poseur]

hahahahahah umm ok...

IF you had a car with 225's would you drop to a lower width for snow? If so, how low? 215 205 195's? I think that argument is a joke.

I guess an SUV should drop to 175 90 13's?

just because our cars came with 195's does not mean we have to drop to a damned skinnier tire. It's called independent thinking, try it sometime.

Why don't you ride a bicycle then?

Dude, chillax, I'm not trying to insult you, just sharing my personal experince, and the general way of thinking of nearly EVERY TIRE DESIGNER/company/reviewer, etc.

And YES, as a matter of fact, if you had 225's it would be a good general practice to drop to 215's or 205's for snow. Tires are condition-specific. But as we all know you don't get something for nothing, there's always compromises. YES, for performance driving on dry pavement, wider=better, but as anyone who's driven a speed or P5, or any car with preformance-oriented wheels/tires in the rain or snow knows, that same assurance in summer=float in water and slush. Width encourages hydroplaning in wet, and float in snow. both of these are BAD things. The point of getting snowtires is to get better traction IN THE SNOW, and so now that performance compromise that was made for extra stick in the dry comes around to bite you.... Think of it like this. fill the tub, and then try to slap the water with your hand flat. That would represent a wide tire in the wet, do the same with your hand vertical, that's a narrower tire. extreme examples, but the result is hard to deny.

And as a matter of fact I DO ride bicycles in the snow in the winter. manage to get around just fine. But really, there's a realistic limit. Obviously you can't go slapping geo metro tires on your car, because for one, you're realistically NOT going to be in the snow 100% of the time, you need a substancial enough tire/rim to support the weight of your car, etc. and it still must be safe for "normal driving" including decent handling on dry pavement at freeway speeds. You must also consider that disc brakes are big, and you can only go down so far in wheel size and still have clearance. So as a good general rule, it's wise to go with the "wimpyest" stock tire for a particular line of cars, that would be a protegedx or whatever, and those correspond with what I've suggested. What is your background in as a wintertraction guru? I really don't claim to know everything, but basic physics, tons of research, and years of driving experience have led me to the conclusions I've made.

Question me as much as you wish, but don't be a prick about it. If I didn't know what I was talking about I wouldn't have offered up my advice.

 

[Poseur]

Hey Paul! Thanks for the information. My mother-in-law apparently ended up finding a place out in Puyallup that had some studless snow tires for the MP5. I cannot remember the #'s for the tire right now, but they're made by a manufacturer called Hancock I believe. Cost about $400 to put the tires on the alloy rims and balance it. Feels so weird to drive my car now, 'cos the tires are so soft.

No drifting the car in the snow for me I guess. :'(

By the way, how's Danielle doing?

Hankook, yes they make a decent winter tread. Glad you got taken care of, and found something that works. who knows it may be a good excuse to get some 17's for the summer now! I'm running michelin artic alpins myself and I've been blown away, siping rules. One thing, though, as soon as the snow backs off, put your stocks back on. part of the winter tire thing is they're made softer sothat when it's colder out, they grip the same as a harder tire would in the heat if that makes any sense. Eitherway, it breaks down to you'll have better traction in the cold, but worse in the heat, and the heat'll peel that spendy tread right off. Also, be alittle more careful on dry pavement because as you said, softer tires, not as much grip, they'll not handle as well, but they'll come to life when it gets nasty. Also it's a good thing this time of year to just give more following distance, be a little more cautious, etc. because there's lots of sand that'll slide you off the road, tons of nasty back ice, and other drivers that aren't nearly as intouch with the road and driving as yourself.

As far as drifting, don't worry, there's plenty to be had in the snow. That's actually what I prefer about studless tires, apart fomr the comfort and "normal" driveability, they don't have the 100% sheer ice grip, but they don't have any of the bad "walking" and strange sliding traits either. Just smooth consistent limits that are MUCH higher than your stock tires. Be careful withit, explore your limits as much as possible in wide open spaces where there's no curbs or anything to hurt yourself on. I recommend doing that all you can. For one it's REALLY damn fun, all sorts of sweet drifting action only at 1/10th speed with alot less likelyhood of damage or injury. Mostly it gives you a VERY good grasp of what'll go wrong and how to handle it whenit happens... makeup an imaginary curve, or hazard to avoid and see what it takes to negotiate it. One of the biggest thigns is stay light one the brakes. Use your enginespeed and proper steering to avoid problems, the snow'll naturally slow you down itself. If we get a good dump, and you want some assistance, I'll prolly be out in a parkinglot with D doing the same, you're more than welcome to join us, or maybe we'll go join you.

Feel free to drop in on either of us. I'm working way toomuch lately, but Danielle's around and free quite a bit lately. Danielle's doing good. Not sure if you saw, but she got a yellow 02, and she's been loving it. She goes by engel on here now. me>509-961-7887 D>833-1949

 

[Mazda P5 driver]

Sorry Poseur, came off the wrong way. IMO...I find it odd that big ass tires are ok for an SUV yet not for passenger cars. Makes absolutely no sense to me what so ever.

On packed snow, the skinnier tire has no pros. Unless you are driving a snow plow, you aren't exactly the one going out making paths for everyone. Up here in WA anyways. Remember last years 2-3 days of snow? Just keep in mind that cars like Audis have 225's on them. the lowest anyone will drop to is prolly a 215. So, why does anyone driving a 195 width tire feel the need for a 175? Its fricken rediculous.

If and when I get snows, I will most likely get 205's. If and when I do, I will let you know how it worked out for the 2-3 days of snow again. I just see the whole skinnier tire thing as sheep mentality.

 

[mp5diva]

If and when I get snows, I will most likely get 205's. If and when I do, I will let you know how it worked out for the 2-3 days of snow again. I just see the whole skinnier tire thing as sheep mentality.

I was born and raised in Western Washington, and I can say that getting snow tires for the possible 2-3 days of snow (more than likely it'll dump all day and then be gone by morning, at least that's how it was in Gig Harbor.. Except for last year when I lived in Tacoma and it stayed for quite awhile) would more than likely be a mild waste of time. However, being on the Eastern side of Washington now... I know how bad it gets. My best friend told me about 2 years ago when he lived here in Ellensburg, how in the 1st week of November they had 2 feet of snow over night. (boom05)

 

[mp5diva]

I recommend doing that all you can. For one it's REALLY damn fun, all sorts of sweet drifting action only at 1/10th speed with alot less likelyhood of damage or injury. Mostly it gives you a VERY good grasp of what'll go wrong and how to handle it whenit happens... makeup an imaginary curve, or hazard to avoid and see what it takes to negotiate it. One of the biggest thigns is stay light one the brakes. Use your enginespeed and proper steering to avoid problems, the snow'll naturally slow you down itself. If we get a good dump, and you want some assistance, I'll prolly be out in a parkinglot with D doing the same, you're more than welcome to join us, or maybe we'll go join you.

Feel free to drop in on either of us. I'm working way toomuch lately, but Danielle's around and free quite a bit lately. Danielle's doing good. Not sure if you saw, but she got a yellow 02, and she's been loving it. She goes by engel on here now. me>509-961-7887 D>833-1949

Just programmed both of your numbers into my cell phone! Hey now, working too much lately is a good thing. I had to quit PacSun back in August when we moved over here, and haven't been able to find a job in this town ever since! If I knew that I-82 wasn't going to be an absolute pain in the butt come winter time, I'd try and get a job down at the Union Gap Mall... I know I have plenty of management experience.

But thanks for the pointers about the snow tires, man! I really appreciate it. I think we ended up with 205's but I'll have to ask Jason when he gets back from Lake Stevens fire department tomorrow (he had ride time this weekend with their medic rig up there) afternoon. And if you two want to come up here to get Danielle up to speed on the snow with the MP5, give me a call sometime and I'd totally be down for that! Plus it'd be nice to actually get to see you two! I've missed you guys!

 

[Poseur]

Sorry Poseur, came off the wrong way. IMO...I find it odd that big ass tires are ok for an SUV yet not for passenger cars. Makes absolutely no sense to me what so ever.

On packed snow, the skinnier tire has no pros. Unless you are driving a snow plow, you aren't exactly the one going out making paths for everyone. Up here in WA anyways. Remember last years 2-3 days of snow? Just keep in mind that cars like Audis have 225's on them. the lowest anyone will drop to is prolly a 215. So, why does anyone driving a 195 width tire feel the need for a 175? Its fricken rediculous.

If and when I get snows, I will most likely get 205's. If and when I do, I will let you know how it worked out for the 2-3 days of snow again. I just see the whole skinnier tire thing as sheep mentality.

Bigass suv's also weigh more. it's all relative to weight. Have you seen what an audi tips the scales at? they ain't lightweight. And YES a skinnier tire has advantages on packed snow. SNOW TIRES must dig not float. you ALWAYS want to be digging for traction, Seriously, man I've been through lots of this, as have many others. I know it's entirely opposite the thinking for summer performance tires, but that's the point, you don't go out and buy slicks for snow, right?

Asfor the 2-3days of snow, indeed it would be nothing short of stupid to buy snowtires over on thatside unless you headed up the passes alot. But for me, snowdriving is a HUGE part of my life. I've driven to colorado through snowstorms before. 3/4 of the miles or more on my car over the winter are snow. I snowboard ALOT, and live on the eastside, where it does, indeed snow. Jess's right, couple years ago we had 2' overnight and that's just in town, and all sorts of ice. Up in the mtns, hell I usually don't go unless there's atleast 4" of new, and you cna bet I'm making tracks. It may seem rediculous for me to want a skinny winter tire, but when I'm heading up the pass next month I'll be loving myself for it.

It'd be silly for you to get snow tires, This difference exactly is why I wonder why you feel qualified to comment on the matter. And as a matter of fact, I roll 215's in the summer...that's right I drop 3cm of width for winter. Each has it's purpose... The added bonus of going down in size and especially rims, is that 185/65/15's are WAY cheaper and easier to find snowtires in than a 185/50/16. win/win...

 

[Poseur]

Just programmed both of your numbers into my cell phone! Hey now, working too much lately is a good thing. I had to quit PacSun back in August when we moved over here, and haven't been able to find a job in this town ever since! If I knew that I-82 wasn't going to be an absolute pain in the butt come winter time, I'd try and get a job down at the Union Gap Mall... I know I have plenty of management experience.

But thanks for the pointers about the snow tires, man! I really appreciate it. I think we ended up with 205's but I'll have to ask Jason when he gets back from Lake Stevens fire department tomorrow (he had ride time this weekend with their medic rig up there) afternoon. And if you two want to come up here to get Danielle up to speed on the snow with the MP5, give me a call sometime and I'd totally be down for that! Plus it'd be nice to actually get to see you two! I've missed you guys!

Oh, don't get me wrong I can appreciate the income.. Hell I hadn't had a job since before that meet at the ferry dock. up until last month... *L* Butyea, 82 can get a bit ick, not horrible, though they've taken good care of it the past couple years. Butyea, def we should get together and such.

Butyea, we'll be snowplaying anywhich way. I really can't stress enough for as much gulty-fun it seems to be, getting sideways in empty parkinglots is a VERY good thing. As long as it's a ncie empty safe environment, get as crooked as you can. Tires are a good thing, but nothing can beat experience.

Anyways, yea nice to hear fromya, give us a shout if you're in town, or y'kno likewise. I'll make sure Danielle knows you're overthere now, she'll prolly headover and visit or something. She's been looking for excuses to drive places lately...

 

[Poseur]

Incase there's any question left. http://www.tirerack.com/winter/tech/sizing.html I just really don't want anyone to get the wrong idea.