Wide Open Throttle Solution

[Keith@FP]

I don't believe it's going to be possible to reach acceptable tuning without doing something to the stock ECU. That could be a matter of spoofing the correct inputs or reprogramming. Setting your fuel to be adequate when the ECU is at full lean means that you will be seriously rich when it goes open loop - enough to cause some real driveability problems.

We haven't come up with our final solution yet. We've got a couple of ideas that seem to work and are investigating a couple of others.

Keith

 

[MazdaT]

My question is this(This may sound stupid) How about if you account for maximum ecu fuel compensation -30.8% and set fuel according to that for a fail safe? This obiviously will not be set for maximum performance (when the ecu is not taking out as much fuel or adding fuel) but for reliabilty sake??

If you go past the ecu's authority range you will trigger a check engine light (that is part of obd-2 compliance). That's what makes figuring this out so tricky.

What brand wideband was that in the picture, and how much did it cost? Just curious, I've never seen that one before.

Jeff

PS- Travaler, don't you have an Emanage? I thought you were installing one. If so, just go in to the mass air correction table and take your fuel out there, much easier then changing fuel pressures.

 

[Keith@FP]

The wbo2 is a Techedge: http://www.techedge.com.au/vehicle/wbo2/wbfmd.htm

Keith

 

[1sty]

(bow) Bill & keith

 

[APEXistud]

I really hope you guys find a cure for this damn unit.

 

[DooMer_MP3]

Is the cure an eManage? Simple, and cheap. Is it a fix, though?

Chris

 

[mp3rican007]

Well about the emanage.
I bought the emanage from traveler and havent installed ot due to time constraints. I was thinking the same as MazdaT incase tuning the fuel didnt work I would just fool around with the mass correction table. Also I havent found the injector ground wire yet. I am assuming it just runs off one of the ECUs ground it has 3 that I know of. I any one knows which pin is the injector ground please let me know I can always drop my car off at my shop of choice and they can install it no charge. GarageAdvance.com all the way baby.

 

[Keith@FP]

From what I've read of the eManage, it won't help. It can add 20% more fuel, but the stock ECU can pull 30.8%. So that won't prevent the stock ECU from going stoich when it's closed loop. As soon as you go open loop, it'll go very rich again. Cool looking unit, not appropriate for this application.

Keith

 

[mp3rican007]

With the emanage I have many ideas on which way to fool the ecu.

One is mess with the mass air correction table.

Two is install like 440cc Injectors and tell emanage it has 400cc injectors so it runs lean then give it the fuel it needs

Three is work with the fuel pressures and injector duty cycle to cut back fuel and with fmu as boost increases it will allocate fuel needed

Couple more in mind but once somebody can tell me what the injector ground is (Which ecu ground is the injector ground) I can let you all now if any of this works.

Omar

 

[blynzoo]

So do I, but if you don't use it, you loose it.

I laughed out loud at that one (dont get me fired!)....

 

[MazdaT]

The emanage cannot overcome the closed loop fuel correction. It can work just fine for open loop corrections, but the stock ecu has to much authority. Installing 440cc injectors and programming the emanage to 400cc is a mistake. The emanage does not need to be fooled. It is a tool to fool the stock ecu. The emanage has the ability to control 440cc injectors just fine, with out fooling it. Your last statement is off base as well. You say you want to "work with fuel pressures and idc to cut back fuel, but use a fmu to increase fuel under boost". A fmu increases fuel under boost. It sounds like you don't really know what you are doing, and you could cause problems for your car.

The tuning problem that we have with the protege 5 is not uncommon with most newer obd2 cars, especially 2000 and newer. The emanage does not have the ability to over come lean air fuel ratios in closed loop mode with out triggering a check engine light or causing drivability problems.

Jeff

With the emanage I have many ideas on which way to fool the ecu.

One is mess with the mass air correction table.

Two is install like 440cc Injectors and tell emanage it has 400cc injectors so it runs lean then give it the fuel it needs

Three is work with the fuel pressures and injector duty cycle to cut back fuel and with fmu as boost increases it will allocate fuel needed

Couple more in mind but once somebody can tell me what the injector ground is (Which ecu ground is the injector ground) I can let you all now if any of this works.

Omar

 

[blynzoo]

I think what it's gonna come down to is a reprogramming, which means getting mazda involved. The simple fact is, our ECU's open loop is rich. Open loop mapping is actually easier to change (from a programming standpoint) than closed. During a closed loop, our cars are so good at monitoring the engine, that bypassing all the checks would be near impossible, and would probably result in a CEL. I think we should flash the ECU TO a computer and start reading code. I need a reader, my friend is the best programmer in the world (okay, I'm a little biased). Luckily, our ECUs are open coded, which means we can both add on to existing code, and replace old code without password or security (for easy fixes by manufacturer in the future). So, once we know what everything stands for (and there it's like deciphering a new language), reprogramming should be a snap.

Keith, do you fellas have access to the ECU programming? If you do, you could email me the codec and my friend could decipher it.

 

[blynzoo]

I think what it's gonna come down to is a reprogramming, which means getting mazda involved. The simple fact is, our ECU's open loop is rich. Open loop mapping is actually easier to change (from a programming standpoint) than closed. During a closed loop, our cars are so good at monitoring the engine, that bypassing all the checks would be near impossible, and would probably result in a CEL. I think we should flash the ECU TO a computer and start reading code. I need a reader, my friend is the best programmer in the world (okay, I'm a little biased). Luckily, our ECUs are open coded, which means we can both add on to existing code, and replace old code without password or security (for easy fixes by manufacturer in the future). So, once we know what everything stands for (and there it's like deciphering a new language), reprogramming should be a snap.

Keith, do you fellas have access to the ECU programming? If you do, you could email me the codec and my friend could decipher it.

 

[blynzoo]

whoa man, deja vu.......

 

[Keith@FP]

We think we've found a way to spoof the signals to the ECU so that it doesn't throw a CEL and we can control the mixture. We'll be sending this setup out to the folks with the BEGI kits soon - we're just running it on our own car to confirm.

As for reprogramming, we've been talking to Visteon and a number of other people. We're looking into that as well, as it's the best solution. Our ECU is currently off getting sucked dry of information It may be possible to do what needs to be done with a dongle that plugs into one of the ports of the ECU. We'll see.

Keith

 

[big_ben]

Damn you guys are good. You really are a tech weenie!

 

[1sty]

Keith stop it, your getting me way to exited, I'm twitching for god sakes

 

[njaremka]

It may be possible to do what needs to be done with a dongle that plugs into one of the ports of the ECU. We'll see.

Keith

a "dongle", huh? does jc whitney carry those?

 

[Stou]

Keith, are you planing to sell that 'dongle?' for other people who don't have the BEGI kit?

 

[Keith@FP]

For you, special price!

Actually, I don't know. We haven't discussed it. We're just trying to get it to work first, then we work out distribution. On the Miata, we'll sell any part of a turbo kit separately so there's a good chance.

Keith