Why can't I heel toe

[gogogomoveit]

but i'm a raw, rough > luxury, touring anyway.....

+1. Automated manuals are definitely faster and more consistent, but i prefer the raw mechanical control

 

[Benior]

Well thanks to Toyota, I wonder if car makers will start disabling the accelerator when the brake is pressed in...which would mean no more heel-toeing for you!

According to this Car and Driver article, BMW, Chrysler, Nissan/Infiniti, Porsche, and Volkswagen/Audi all cut power when the brakes are applied.

 

[vikonic]

Heel-toe is unnecesary in DD... You really don't need to rev match WHILE braking during DD you can rev match by blipping the throttle and not braking. You don't have to hell-toe to rev-match. its for braking while rev-matching.

Spirited driving does not equate to DD

Thank you.

 

[mung35]

In my '02 Protege, I have to toe-toe... "thumb toe" and "pinky toe"

 

[m8swe]

I find the accelerator pedal just too far away from the brake for my size 9's. 'm going to remove the aluminium pedal and shift it over one set of holes. apparently I'll have to remove the whole pedal from the bulk head to do this. Anyone done it yet?

 

[Huligan]

^^I wouldnt say no use^^

I always rev match when downshifting in daily driving, rarely do i heel-toe tho

wtf?

then how do you engage the clutch and brake at the same time?

 

[hugador]

I learnd to heel toe but kinda forgot since not really necessary for DD.

 

[gonerogue]

wtf?

then how do you engage the clutch and brake at the same time?

You don't have to heel-toe to rev match. Double-clutching can do the trick.

 

[nate0123]

wtf?

then how do you engage the clutch and brake at the same time?

(this has already been answered, but...) you only need to heel toe if you're rev matching while braking

rev-matched downshifts can be done at any other time by pressing the throttle before re-engaging the clutch

as long as you have two feet this doesn't require heel-toeing

You don't have to heel-toe to rev match. Double-clutching can do the trick.

I'm sorry, what?

 

[H3br3w_Ham3r]

i'm sorry, what?

+1

 

[gonerogue]

(this has already been answered, but...) you only need to heel toe if you're rev matching while braking

rev-matched downshifts can be done at any other time by pressing the throttle before re-engaging the clutch

as long as you have two feet this doesn't require heel-toeing

I'm sorry, what?

I don't know why you're confused, you pretty much described what I was alluding to. Double-clutch downshifting or upshifting involves blipping the throttle to rev match for the next gear.

 

[nate0123]

Doesn't double clutching also involve releasing and re-depressing the clutch for a single shift?

 

[gonerogue]

Doesn't double clutching also involve releasing and re-depressing the clutch for a single shift?

Yeah, it's basically this:

1. Disengage clutch, shift to neutral, engage clutch
2. Blip throttle
3. Disengage clutch, shift to desired gear, engage clutch

I use it all the time when I need to downshift without braking.

 

[nate0123]

Completely unnecessary to engage the clutch between gears. That is why I was confused.

 

[gonerogue]

Completely unnecessary to engage the clutch between gears. That is why I was confused.

When I'm in a hurry, I'll single-clutch downshift without putting the car into neutral, but I'm usually slipping the clutch a little at that point. Double-clutching is just something that I'm used to and it's so quick that I don't feel a need to change my muscle memory to single-clutch all the time.

It may be unnecessary because modern transmissions have synchros, but it doesn't hurt to do it and it's literally a left-right-left foot motion without hesitation when done correctly.

EDIT: Now that I think about it, I'll try to give single-clutching another go just because it removes a step. It would definitely be quicker, I just have to fight the muscle memory.

 

[destrux]

Double clutching is useful for three occasions...

1. You are driving a farm tractor.
2. You are driving a large (usually diesel powered) truck.
3. Your transmission is so rare that you would have to have new synchronizers made from scratch if you ever wore them out.

Otherwise, the extra wear on the moving parts of the clutch mechanism (pedal mechanism, fork pivot, pressure plate, release bearing, slave and master cylinders) isn't worth it. You're basically doubling the rate you wear them out.

I usually just rev match my downshifts while DD. There's no runoff areas on the backroads around here like there are on racetracks. If I botch an attempt at heel-toe'ing I'm likely to end up halfway up a tree, or off a cliff. I can do it, and occasionally do if the right situation comes up (a turn in the middle of a farm field). I do enjoy left foot braking though. It works better with the dsc off.... although the dsc could save your ass if you get carried away.