What do I need to do to get ...
- Thread starter pat_smith1969
- Start date
plug n play harness has been out for a while, no need to splice anything.
I want to see this information about the AP having full control over the throttle, because all I have seen was that it has control over the throttle plate, but not full control to open it 100% like the Full control flash. I could be wrong if you give me some credible information.
Also, the reason I say the AP has not been hitting it's claimed marks is because I see them on the dyno. Even with the V103, the actually gains are not close to what they claim the gains should be. If COBB would just spend some time and actually test these maps themselves alot more instead of sending out all these crap beta maps, than I think they would have a much better tunning solution. But anyway, AP or standback, its still better than stock tune.
Here is an old log I took a while back. Not sure which 103 Map this was from. As you can see the TP does not close at all and is held open until you release the gas. Full open is not 100. I think fully open is 90Degs
However, the point is that they have full control over the TP as you can plainly see in this log. They are able to keep it open until you let off the gas unlike stock.
I tried to find an old log that shows the TP closing but I was unable too. But when you don't have control of the TP you can see it drop like a rock around 5000RPMs. The 103 Maps the TP will hold above 80deg until you let off without closing like the stock one does.
I put down 286WHP/296TQ running the 103 Beta and this was before I installed my DP. I put down the most power of all the MS3's that dyno'd that same day including one fully bolted running 18PSI. The only things he didn't have was a Mani and bigger Turbo. He put down 273WHP. So again, I'm not sure where you're getting your information about them not hitting their mark. I was pretty happy with mine.
Now if you want to spend $500 to keep the TP open in addition to the $650 for the SB, then by all means do so. The SB is a great product and you will never see me say any different.
The only thing I will say is that I fully believe that the AP is the better choice unless you have the time/desire/money to get the SB purchased and properly tuned. If you do, the end result will probably be more power than the AP as you can custom tune the SB.
However, I simply didn't want to spend that kind of cash only to spend another ton getting it tuned. I simply want to have more power and a safer tune than tossing on an MBC/Map Clamp. I would find it hard to believe that I'm the only one that feels this way.
Again, the SB is a GREAT product. If you have the time/cash to invest in it.
Please Note: This is a much older 103 Map as it still had Knock. My current 103 Map has no knock at all.
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Here is an old log I took a while back. Not sure which 103 Map this was from. As you can see the TP does not close at all and is held open until you release the gas. Full open is not 100. I think fully open is 90Degs
However, the point is that they have full control over the TP as you can plainly see in this log. They are able to keep it open until you let off the gas unlike stock.
I tried to find an old log that shows the TP closing but I was unable too. But when you don't have control of the TP you can see it drop like a rock around 5000RPMs. The 103 Maps the TP will hold above 80deg until you let off without closing like the stock one does.
I put down 286WHP/296TQ running the 103 Beta and this was before I installed my DP. I put down the most power of all the MS3's that dyno'd that same day including one fully bolted running 18PSI. The only things he didn't have was a Mani and bigger Turbo. He put down 273WHP. So again, I'm not sure where you're getting your information about them not hitting their mark. I was pretty happy with mine.
Now if you want to spend $500 to keep the TP open in addition to the $650 for the SB, then by all means do so. The SB is a great product and you will never see me say any different.
The only thing I will say is that I fully believe that the AP is the better choice unless you have the time/desire/money to get the SB purchased and properly tuned. If you do, the end result will probably be more power than the AP as you can custom tune the SB.
However, I simply didn't want to spend that kind of cash only to spend another ton getting it tuned. I simply want to have more power and a safer tune than tossing on an MBC/Map Clamp. I would find it hard to believe that I'm the only one that feels this way.
Again, the SB is a GREAT product. If you have the time/cash to invest in it.
Please Note: This is a much older 103 Map as it still had Knock. My current 103 Map has no knock at all.
Sorry to tell you, but that map shows max tp opening of 84%, thats not a very good showing for the AP, also, a fully bolted a PROPERLY tuned ms3 with the standback would get better numbers than 286 whp, I'm sure there are a few people on here that can attess to that.
I can see that you like your AP very much, and thats great for you, but seeing the numbers in person, and not having to trust other people's here-say is what formed my opinion.
Sorry about the thread jack, please dont reply anymore about ap vs. standback, if you must, please just PM me.
The point of the post is to show they have FULL CONTROL to set it where they wish and to hold it open. That log shows just that and if you have ever seen a TP close on a Stock ECU then you would know what it looks like. A log on a stock ECU would have the TP dropping like a rock after 5000RPM's.
Full Throttle is NOT 100 it is 90deg. The difference between 80 and 90 is negligible and matters not. On a stock ECU near 6000rpms the TP would be about 30deg or less (Sorry but I simply don't have any older logs to prove this to you).
Also, please read my post correctly next time. I put down 286WHP WITHOUT A DP INSTALLED. With the DP I'm sure I have 300WHP ish. That's more than enough for me personally.
Also, I would not disagree that a properly tuned SB would put down better numbers than an AP. I'm sure it will. If you want to spend 2 to 3k to purchase the SB and all the added crap (PNP, Flash) and to get it tuned properly from a person who knows how to tune the SB properly.
Look at it this way my friend. With just $100ish more added to the $500 you paid to get nothing more than Full Throttle (which is really worthless with your mods), you could have had more Power, Full Throttle and a Tune while you saved up the cash to purchase the rest of the stuff on your Wish List.
Also, my opinion is based off the fact that I actually own what I'm talking about. You don't own ether one so everything you're saying is based off here-say. I'm not knocking the SB, it's a wonderful tool. You made a false statement saying that the AP does not have full control and I simply proved you wrong. They do and if they didn't you would see it drop off like a rock. If you actually think there is a huge difference from 80deg and 90deg, you might want to rethink that.
Both the AP and SB have their place for our community and are both great products for their market demographic.
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I drive 100miles a day. A lot in stop and go. I push at or over 300whp now. Trying to walk that fine line between power being on/off gets hard at times. Your constantly trying to baby the clutch/gas to stay out of the power and then sometime you simply can't. It can become a pain at times.
I don't believe I said OMGWTFBBQ 300whp is undriveable. I simply said it can be a PITA at time and it sure as hell can.
10% in TP is huge. When you are talking about forced induction, 10% in a throttle plate means alot. I was the first person to get the full control flash on a mazdaspeed3, and had it data logged with my buddies dashhawk, the first flash only gave me about 90% throttle all the way to redline, after Lou tuned it up a little bit, I had 100% throttle. Made a huge difference in my car to redline, it was about any huge power gains, it was the fact I had power to redline. Thats huge even on a stock car.
on your graph, it looks like you are having some throttle plate issues from 4000-5000 rpms, its only about 75-80% tp position as you are full throttle. Thats not a good thing, I will log my graphs, but mine shoots thright to 100% without any of those issue.
Also, can you please just PM, this has nothing to do with the original thread.
yeah, I'm sure on the highway it's no issue, but in the city, and driving WOT from a stop is probably not as fun with all the wheelspin.
Man, I bought my car planning to do some big build on it, hoping to hit over 350whp, but I gave up about a year ago. 2 reasons, first that it is just not fun in FWD, and second even with forged internals and proper fuel pump, I don't think the car can hold on to it for a longer period of time.
I never said I was. Unless you are pushing the power I'm pushing I don't expect you to understand. There is simply a fine line in traffic where you want to keep your car and sometimes that line gets crossed when you don't want it too. Not saying I'm smoking the tires or anything just there is more of an on/off is all. More than with stock where staying out of the power is easy. Staying out of the power when your modded is just a bit harder and requires more work. Hope that makes sense?
I want to see a Dyno showing you pulling power past 5.5k. Butt Dyno's don't count my friend. Cobb did a Huge write-up on the Trottle Plate. They proved that the TP has nothing to do with pulling to redline. The limiting factor is CAM's. They did concede and say that a Bigger Turbo might see some benefit, but even then not much.
Now the AP 103 Maps DO pull to 6k to 6.2k where normal SB and such drop off at 5.5k (There are plently Dyno's out there showing this). They do this through CAM Phasing which is something the SB can't do. So with the AP you pull a bit more past 6k but even then you still drop off before redline.
Also, you still miss the point. On a Stock ECU the TP closes almost completely by 6.5k it drops drastically at 5.5k until redline. My TP DOES NOT CLOSE at all. It remains open until I take my foot off the gas. 80deg 50deg 10deg it does not matter. The log shows that Cobb has total control of the TP because if they didn't it would CLOSE which it doesn't, it stays open. Just look on the CP-E website for an example of a Stock TP closing.
So please, don't make another false statement and then ask me to take it to PM's. Take you own advise first if you must. Also it's Degree's not Percent when measured, 90deg is fully open so the difference between 84 and 90 is minuscule. Also if Cobb wanted it to be 90 exactly, they could do it.
Just a thought, but maybe you can tune your power curve so it isn't so steep, it may help your drive.
that's all that we need here, tune the car for turns and learn to use the power we already have =] at least that's my philosophy for our cars
I hear you. It's not that 300whp is bad as it's really not. Cobb does bring on the TQ more linear with the 103 Maps. I could not imagine having more WHP/TQ though (like 350+) as a daily. My personal opinion is that 300ish is perfect for both power and daily driving without being too much over the top.
I would love to get Coils for my MS3, but right now I have to settle for a RSB and Springs. They made a huge difference. I would love to see what coils do but I can't justify that expense right now.
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false claims?? please review all the threads on this and other forums of the AP and Standback and it's obvious that the standback is a better choice. If you want to get into a pissing match, go join those threads, I jest tell you what I have seen.
Please post a dyno so you can attempt to back up the AP, because the numbers are still not where they claim it should be gaining. Until than, you really haven shown anything except a dashhawk data log.
alright, I'll be the bigger man and stop argueing with you. You obviously are a COBB fanboy, so you say whatever you want (i'm sure your next post will have alot of crap in it) and I'm not going to reply.
p.s. you were the first person to knock the standback, I didn't say anything about the COBB.
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Darksun280
Member
- :
- MS3
Man what bubble you've been in. Me personally with DP,MP,intake, BC for power mods I've been between 300 and 320whp for what 5 months now maybe more. Loosh is over 300 and theres a couple cobb guys over too. You need to forum hop and read around.
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Here is my Dyno running AP 103 Map with all mods in my Sig except I DIDN'T have the DP installed. Dyno Jet
As you can see I pull Max power almost to 6k.
Here is another Dyno with no AP running an MBC/Map Clamp at 18PSI. Also no DP or FMIC. Dynojet
And this is basically stock with a CAI/Test Pipe only. Mustang Dyno
The SB is the better choice IF you want to invest 2-3k into buying it and getting it properly tuned. I don't disagree.
There is a Market for both. Simple as that. The AP has Full Control of the TP. You wasted $500 on the Flash as none of your mods benefit from it. Loyalty to a vendor is fine bro, but blindly following is foolish. I have no brand loyalty. If I was wanting to push every ounce of power I could out of my MS3, I would buy and install/tune a SB myself. However, I simply wanted around 300WHP with as little cash/effort as possible. The AP helped me do just that.
So don't get all defensive. Post a dyno of you pulling to redline due to your flash or STFU about what you don't know. You have no SB or AP so how the hell can you give a valid opinion on anything?
Oh and lets clear something else up while we're at it my friend. EXACTLY what numbers have Cobb claimed? I have never seen them say that if you use our AP you will have 350WHP or anything of the like.
Oh and I'm not a Cobb fanboi. I simply like the AP as it works for me. Like I said above, if my goal was to pull every last ounce of Power I could out of my MS3, I would be running the SB instead. That was not my goal.
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