warning (of sort)

[Focus]

Correct me if I'm wrong here guys, but the exhaust cam IS adjustable, just not as much as the Tripoint gears will allow.

- No, you cannot adjust exhaust valve timing vs. Ignition timing (with a stock ECU) but is that really a large concern for the exhaust cam?
- Yes, the exhaust cam is adjustable in relation to piston location. The only caveat to that situation is that you need to make an intake cam adjustment everytime you make an exhaust cam one.

Also, one must be careful when using a stock ecu vs. an aftermarket EMS, because you are altering ignition timing. ( Can be corrected with Aftermaqrket ECU )

 

[twilightprotege]

yes the exhaust cam is adjustable, the problem lies in the fact that when you adjust the cam timing, you are also adjusting the sensor pick ups, which *can* adjust ignition timing and who knows what else, hense this thread

 

[LordWorm]

Correct me if I'm wrong here guys, but the exhaust cam IS adjustable, just not as much as the Tripoint gears will allow.

- No, you cannot adjust exhaust valve timing vs. Ignition timing (with a stock ECU) but is that really a large concern for the exhaust cam?
- Yes, the exhaust cam is adjustable in relation to piston location. The only caveat to that situation is that you need to make an intake cam adjustment everytime you make an exhaust cam one.

Also, one must be careful when using a stock ecu vs. an aftermarket EMS, because you are altering ignition timing. ( Can be corrected with Aftermaqrket ECU )

aftermarket ecu can correct ignition timing, but it still needs to know what the home/ref signals are... they are configured (either from factory with the microtech, or by the user with the haltechs) to "expect" a signal at a certain crank event. Advance or retard the gears too much, that signal wont occur at the expected time... ignition timing, timing of fuel injector opening, injector phasing, dwell, and so on and so forth are all based on these expected events....put them out, and don't tell the ecu how much you have put them out by, and no amount of adjusting ignition advance will rectify the situation....

 

[Focus]

aftermarket ecu can correct ignition timing, but it still needs to know what the home/ref signals are... they are configured (either from factory with the microtech, or by the user with the haltechs) to "expect" a signal at a certain crank event. Advance or retard the gears too much, that signal wont occur at the expected time... ignition timing, timing of fuel injector opening, injector phasing, dwell, and so on and so forth are all based on these expected events....put them out, and don't tell the ecu how much you have put them out by, and no amount of adjusting ignition advance will rectify the situation....

Exactly what I was trying to say. An aftermarket ECU can compensate, but at what price (tuning) ?

I do have a question though, is ignition triggered by the cam sensor OR by the crank position sensor ?

 

[LordWorm]

Exactly what I was trying to say. An aftermarket ECU can compensate, but at what price (tuning) ?

I do have a question though, is ignition triggered by the cam sensor OR by the crank position sensor ?

Not all aftermarket ecu can compensate - the microtech for instance - in its australian configuration, has its cam and crank triggers locked....they come from factory..push the pickups 1 degree out and you'll score yourself a ref error.

triggering the ignition isn't the problem, its knowing WHEN to trigger the ignition. you can advance and retard the ignition until your hearts content....if the ecu doesn't know when to fire, its not going to make a difference.

as for what triggers the ignition.....can't speak for the american ECU, but the aussie configuration fires on BOTH...the crank sensor provides a TDC ref signal, the cam signal tells the ecu WHICH cylinder is at TDC. Likewise for which injector to fire, and so forth.....

I'd imagine the american ECU is simillar - even though the crank trigger is different.

 

[Sleepy]

Subbing. This may help explain some issues with my car. I might have to put the stock gears back in and see if that fixes it, since I put the Twiggy Sicks and SR gears in at the same time. Weird stuff happened when I reduced the overlap(overun injector cut restart rpm lowered, idle problems, usually starts on second attempt etc). Had wondered if the cam sensor was involved.

 

[WRCprotege]

i just bought cam gears, with my mp3 ecu, theres going to be problems?? what are you guys with cam gears running? intake settings and exhaust settings?? i going to ass dyno tune these things and then get to a dyno to dial them in.. so the question is, is it worth installing the exhaust gear, or staying stock, also if the gear is set at 0 then how is it making the car run bad?

 

[twilightprotege]

dont know if you'll have problems, but i have just discovered yet another issue that could be causing problems. the pickups are magnetic, exactly like they should be, however the washers used for the bolts to keep the cam in place are also magnetic. so the ems is (probably) reading 3 strong and blippy signals and 4 weak signals every cam rotation. GEEZ!!!!

sleepy - change back to stock exhaust cam and see how you go.

wrc - even at 0, it's the bolts used as pickups that are the problem

 

[WRCprotege]

ahh, i see.. mabey then ill swith to aluminum bolts, provided they can hold up to the task... all my friends are engineers, so ill talk to them about this problem to see if we can find a solution.. thanks

 

[Protege5 Driver]

since some one spoke of a 626 intake manifold, are all the 626 intake manifolds the same or is there a specific year that is used? sorry for the thread jack

 

[niky]

All FSDE intake manifolds will fit all FSDEs. Just make sure the manifold you get is a single runner.

As for my cam gears... well, too late now. Will see what it looks like when we finish the head next week.

 

[twilightprotege]

well we changed the cam gears back to the stock ones and there is now no ref error on the microtech. the pickups were definately causing the problem

 

[LordWorm]

Just a reminder guys - keep this thread on track, factual and flame free. Not saying that it has gotten off the rails, but peaceful, and FACTUAL posts are the only thing that will be tollerated by the admins and moderators.....

Just a friendly reminder to keep it civil.....and hopefully we'll get some sort of resolution....

 

[Protege5 Driver]

All FSDE intake manifolds will fit all FSDEs. Just make sure the manifold you get is a single runner.

As for my cam gears... well, too late now. Will see what it looks like when we finish the head next week.

i know that al fsde manifolds will fit. but what i mean is if all of the 626 manifolds the same or only a few are single runner?

 

[ForceFed]

i know that al fsde manifolds will fit. but what i mean is if all of the 626 manifolds the same or only a few are single runner?

This is not the thread for this subject...start a new one on it..or do a search..about 100 Currently exist on this subject alone.

/Threadjack

 

[Protege5 Driver]

This is not the thread for this subject...start a new one on it..or do a search..about 100 Currently exist on this subject alone.

/Threadjack

i am aware of that. read my post a bit below. and if it is not the thread then tell the others that spoke of another topic the same. lets not have a double standard and measure with the same ruler(idhitit)

 

[Sleepy]

Removed SR cam gears and replaced bot stock ones. The car now starts first time, every time. It's back to it's old reliable self again (but with an agro idle). Can't retune it until I replace the WBO2S though, it's been playing up lately. Then I'll see if the other problems have been fixed too.

 

[Crazee D]

Dammit why did I not see this earlier.
There was no mention in the tuning thread!!

 

[Maxx Mazda]

i am aware of that. read my post a bit below. and if it is not the thread then tell the others that spoke of another topic the same. lets not have a double standard and measure with the same ruler(idhitit)

**** off and search man, this is NOT the thread to be bringing this topic up, it's been beat to death if you'd search you'd see....

Now on topic, I know with the Haltech you run without the CMP sensor completely, so these gears would not be a problem. In fact, with the microtech you could probably do it too. The Microtech uses the CKP sensor for a trigger signal, and the CMP sensor for a home signal. The Haltech is a bit more configurable in that you can also use a certain point on he crank as a home signal, as well as another point for a trigger signal which is what it does. In a sense, the two are the same but the home signal only occurs once every 2 crank revolutions, at TDC. If the Microtech can be hooked up that way, there might be away to not need the CMP sensor at all. Guys on stock ECU's are still s*** outta luck though.

 

[Sleepy]

Replaced the WBO2 and retuned with stock cam gears. Only problem is a stumble when accelerating lightly through about 2,500rpm when cold. This never occured with the SR gears set half way between FI and NA. My car is weird though and goes closed loop as soon as the WBO2 warms up and provides a signal, even though the engine is still cold. It doesn't really like a lean mixture when still cold. Once everything is warmed up, it works fine.