Vote for President now

[marashka]

you are entitled to your opinion and it is very much off topic to this tread.
6,000,000+ jews had to die before anythig was done about it....but the main difference is no country entered WW2 to save jews.....everyone had thier own reasons to fight that war, mainly self preservation....
neither did we enter iraq right now to stop extermination of kurds....cause those killings took place before 1st desert storm....and there are many many other countries that kill and torture political prisoners every day (if you are refering to that) why not invade and occupie them?

 

[Matthew]

we need to, but one step at a time. as for your WWII point about why we went to war and the argument about WMD -

say i see a woman being ***** in the distance. i rush to help her fend off her assailant and find out when i get there that he isnt raping her, but instead trying to kill her - and i stop him? does that make it any less noble or any less of a good idea to stop him because i thought he was raping her?

same thing in iraq - does it make it any less noble or worthwhile that we went in for WMD but instead ousted a tyrant who murdered his own people, and began building up their country with education, power, water, etc etc?

 

[70]

...(snip)

StuttersC , where did you get the information about bilogical weapons? from collin powells speach to UN? come on, you make me laugh. you probably watch CNN an believe what you see and hear.
I spent some time in Korea and been to some military briefings about the threat it posesses. its not the missles we are scared of but the technology and materials Korea posesses and what they can do with it. Iraq had no such technologies.
believe what you want to believe but this country is full of propaganda and you guys just belive anything they feed you.

Actually CNN supports the side of not going in (your side apparently), if you ever watched their version of the news...

My intel comes form the ground pounders that took over the camps buddy. The satellite photos that showed the exact location of both camps. The equipment that was used in the northern camp to produce the weapons that was passed along as time went on while I was in country.

My intel comes from intel sources that were there and saw this stuff. I am sure Colin Powell's stuff included some of this, along with the crap Clinton handed over showing exactly what I was talking about.

It is a proven fact Saddam used his personal army to provide protection for both camps (the northern camp and the one 50 miles south of Baghdad). Saddam bought an airliner fuselage for the camp in the south for training.

The northern camp was one of the first sites hit on day one of Iraqi Freedom.

It is a proven fact that Saddam used money to support other terrorist organizations outside of Iraq (PLO and some other in Indonesia), some of which have other links to al Quaeda.

I'm glad you enjoy CNN, but my info is real from real people, not talking heads on the TV...

 

[marashka]

we need to, but one step at a time. as for your WWII point about why we went to war and the argument about WMD -

say i see a woman being ***** in the distance. i rush to help her fend off her assailant and find out when i get there that he isnt raping her, but instead trying to kill her - and i stop him? does that make it any less noble or any less of a good idea to stop him because i thought he was raping her?

same thing in iraq - does it make it any less noble or worthwhile that we went in for WMD but instead ousted a tyrant who murdered his own people, and began building up their country with education, power, water, etc etc?

i see your point and agree with you. to me it still does not justify the invasion and casualties though. we wasted too many young lives and too much money on this affair. if it could have been done any other way i'd be all for it, but with this price tag i dont think its justified.....

 

[Matthew]

i wish it could have been done any other way. doesnt it anger you that they are beheading our civilians?

 

[70]

you are entitled to your opinion and it is very much off topic to this tread.
6,000,000+ jews had to die before anythig was done about it....but the main difference is no country entered WW2 to save jews.....everyone had thier own reasons to fight that war, mainly self preservation....
neither did we enter iraq right now to stop extermination of kurds....cause those killings took place before 1st desert storm....and there are many many other countries that kill and torture political prisoners every day (if you are refering to that) why not invade and occupie them?

The US didn't even know about the concetration camps until 1944 when we first entered into Germany...Which supports your point.

The US didn't want anything to do with the whole thing, depsite the shipping lanes and ships that were being sunk on a regular basis by the Germans in the Atlantic.

However, the killings in Iraq continued after Desert Storm as well.

 

[marashka]

it sure does.....but we invaded their land...i am not trying to justify their barbaric methods, but to them we are nothing but invadors that took away their president and killed a lot of their people. just put yourself in their shoes? would you act civil?

 

[katsmp3]

it sure does.....but we invaded their land...i am not trying to justify their barbaric methods, but to them we are nothing but invadors that took away their president and killed a lot of their people. just put yourself in their shoes? would you act civil?

We are only that to a few of them.. The large Majority of them are happy we are there.

aight.. im going home.. i'll catch back up tomorrow

 

[marashka]

The US didn't even know about the concetration camps until 1944 when we first entered into Germany...Which supports your point.

The US didn't want anything to do with the whole thing, depsite the shipping lanes and ships that were being sunk on a regular basis by the Germans in the Atlantic.

However, the killings in Iraq continued after Desert Storm as well.

i was refering to the exterminations of the whole villiages at the time, which took place before desert storm, political killings, however were going on until very recently, i agree.

 

[70]

We are only that to a few of them.. The large Majority of them are happy we are there.

This is what I saw when I was there. The happiest and saddest Iraqi I ever dealt with was the one I had to return his dead brother too for a family burial...

 

[uclap5]

um, back to topic.


i would vote john mccain.

 

[tonkabui]

too bad the bush campaign smeared him in 2000.

 

[Rism]

That was mostly because of the huge issues they had with the original baggage system.

They started with a huge completely automated baggae system, and peoples stuff ended up all over the place.

Some ramps were speeding luggage along so fats the luggage literally was thrown off. No one knew until people started complaining.

The little carts on tracks were going so fast soemtimes they would burn out the wheels and jam up the whole system.

The luggage system a lone was almost a million, and then the cost of replacing it completely was no small amount of money, not to mention having to pay people to do it while the automated system was torn out and redone...

Im sorry but its very had to believe a baggage system that consists of some motors and conveyer belts costs 300 million to repair or make. I could build about 15 of that rocket ship that just went into space yesterday for 300 million dollars.

 

[70]

Im sorry but its very had to believe a baggage system that consists of some motors and conveyer belts costs 300 million to repair or make. I could build about 15 of that rocket ship that just went into space yesterday for 300 million dollars.

When you look at how big it is and how long it is and all of the places where it had problems, and not to mention labor costs for both the people doing the work on the baggage system (which took almost a full year), and the people doing to manual labor of toting the luggage all over the damn airport, it brings that cost into perspective.

It is a lot more than just some conveyor belts and carts...

 

[Akaveli]

I'll vote for anybody but Bush. Can't stand him.

 

[shinzen]

First, kats- your list looks very similar to this one- and I will stand by the fact that the lies commited by the current administration have cost many lives.
http://www2.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?t=44530&highlight=bush+speech

Stutters- I am still waiting for the smoking gun- if those camps were there, where are the articles? The proof? WMDS? Still doesn't exist.

On the subject of checkers vs. chess- anyone who looks at global politics and thinks that it can just be judged a move at a time needs to re-examine their thoughts. Life is not that simple, how in the world could politics be?

This whole comparison of WWII and the current action in Iraq makes me ill. There were no clear reasons like there were in WWII to go to war.

All of our focus should have stayed on finding the person responsible for 9/11- instead it was seen as an excuse to move on an objective that was had before all of this started. There is my answer to what we should have done instead.

Does it piss me off that our civilians are being beheaded? Absolutely. Let's just nuke the whole area.

 

[70]

....(snip)
Stutters- I am still waiting for the smoking gun- if those camps were there, where are the articles? The proof? WMDS? Still doesn't exist.

(snip).....

The proof has been in a number of articles, on the radio, the 9/11 commision has said it.

There are satellite photos showing exactly what I have stated...

They have found various illegal missile parts in Jordan that came from Iraq...And guess who showed those to us, the UN. Why? They trying to save their own ass now that they are caught in the middle of one hell of a scandal.

So, you are correct that there has not been a "smoking gun." There have been a few discoveries however that get us closer to where the WMDs Iraq had have gone.

 

[Matthew]

they could find a nuke with saddams initials stamped in it and it wouldnt matter because the liberal media would play it off somehow.

 

[Rism]

When you look at how big it is and how long it is and all of the places where it had problems, and not to mention labor costs for both the people doing the work on the baggage system (which took almost a full year), and the people doing to manual labor of toting the luggage all over the damn airport, it brings that cost into perspective.

It is a lot more than just some conveyor belts and carts...

Hmmm no still not buying it.

Lets say there are 50 people working on the baggage claim system and lets just say they are each being payed 100,000 a year.(I doubt they are being paid that much but lets just say.)
So thats:
100,000 x 50 = 5 million dollars for salary for 1 year.
Hell we could say there were 200 people working on the baggage claim for 100,000 a year and that would still only be 20 million for salary and will still have over 250 million left.

 

[shinzen]

The proof has been in a number of articles, on the radio, the 9/11 commision has said it.

There are satellite photos showing exactly what I have stated...

They have found various illegal missile parts in Jordan that came from Iraq...And guess who showed those to us, the UN. Why? They trying to save their own ass now that they are caught in the middle of one hell of a scandal.

So, you are correct that there has not been a "smoking gun." There have been a few discoveries however that get us closer to where the WMDs Iraq had have gone.

As to the commission findings they have established that there was no conclusive link between iraq and al-quaida- heres a quick news snip-
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3816699.stm
As to the sattellite photos, apparently there were conclusive sattellite photos of the wmd manufacturing sites as well- still nothing. Every new discovery that I have heard of winds up being nothing- I am not trying to belittle you here, we are going to disagree on this subject till the end of the world- and I respect your opinion, just feel you are incorrect.

And Matthew- no offense man but the liberal media card has been played out
http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-liberalmedia.htm
As is mentioned in that editorial- back in the 80's that may have been true, but not in today's world.