Twiggy Sticks Install, tuning and results thread
- Thread starter LordWorm
- Start date
The Twiggies are probably akin to 1.5 on Integral's scale. I've got the Integral Stage IIs, and I feel they're too aggressive for a street engine with no management. Without engine management and cam gears, you get nothing... nothing... nothing... then a short, joyous burst of power at 5500 rpm that lasts till 6500 rpm, then you have to shift again... they'd probably be great on an engine that can rev to 8k, but no such luck here...
Dynos? I have dynos up here on my build with the Integrals. Unfortunately, my before and after dynos are pretty far off due to differences in exhausts. What's hard to find is any dyno results for NA builds with Twiggies with a proper "before" and "after". Most Twiggy dynos are of turbo guys.
Dynos? I have dynos up here on my build with the Integrals. Unfortunately, my before and after dynos are pretty far off due to differences in exhausts. What's hard to find is any dyno results for NA builds with Twiggies with a proper "before" and "after". Most Twiggy dynos are of turbo guys.
Last edited:
cougar10agREDUX
Member
- :
- 2003 Protege ES-T
when you order integral cams you tell them if its for a turbo or NA. all the stages are the same for turbo and NA, except for the turbo cams they grind the lobes differently in relation to the front pins. so that will reduce the overlap and still allow you to use stock gears.
i have the kamskk cam gears but now i dunno if im gonna use them.
i'm do for a timing belt. i was gonna wait to get my spare head sent out to get worked on but it was such a pain in the ass getting the hiboost manifold on i don't want to deal with that again. so i'm prolly gonna drop them with the 626 mani.
also in case anyone is wondering i contacted steve at integral for valve lash and his reply, "The cams have the same basecircle diameter as stock, 1.380", and the cold valve lash is set at .011" intake and exhaust."
i have the kamskk cam gears but now i dunno if im gonna use them.
i'm do for a timing belt. i was gonna wait to get my spare head sent out to get worked on but it was such a pain in the ass getting the hiboost manifold on i don't want to deal with that again. so i'm prolly gonna drop them with the 626 mani.
also in case anyone is wondering i contacted steve at integral for valve lash and his reply, "The cams have the same basecircle diameter as stock, 1.380", and the cold valve lash is set at .011" intake and exhaust."
But if you stay in that powerband while shifting it moves real good through the gears, right?
- :
- Completely Stock P5
Those cams don't seem well designed then if they're that "peaky."
you cannot...ever ever, say that, with the specs provided. without seeing the full cam doctor specs for both cams, you cannot determine ramp rate, which is imperative in determining how much "open area" you have during the intake, or exhaust stroke. You cannot look at advertised duration in isolation and make a claim like that. For a turbo, the twiggy cams are about as hardcore as you'd ever like to go (up around the "beyond race cam" realm). For NA, they are also rediculous because the ramp rate is so incredibly steep. That is, they open, and then close, incredibly fast.
Integrals may be more agressive, but you can't really say that either is without looking at both full cam sheets - and you are unlikely to ever see this data for either cam (crazee has the sheets for the twiggys, but i doubt integral will ever release this info to the public as it is usually a closely guarded secret).
sorry for the double post - didn't see this one.
depends on what the cams were designed to do - there is nothing wrong with a peaky engine - in fact if you want high output (no matter how you chose to feed air to the motor) you're going to get a peaky power curve - if you want 500 to 600hp (or, say 170+ NA) out of a 2L engine, you're going to be sacrificing low end. Its the nature of the beast.
most of where, and how the power comes on is down to timing though - so adj cam gears could push the power band around, fatten (and flatten) it, or narrow (and raise the peak) and so on and so forth.
Totally depends what you want to do with the car. I don't know the integrals, but the twiggys are good from about 5k through to my 7000rpm redline and should be fine to the practical limits of engine speed on the motor (7500...maybe more if you do some insane work) - they are quite streetable - noticeable but not unlivable reduction in bottom end - but they go wild once they hit 5k.
E21BIMMERHEAD
Member
where did you locate your twiggy cams?
sprinter119
Member
- :
- 2013 Mazdaspeed3
mmmmmmm i love that sound
Here's an update...
1. When in neutral (to slow down), the revs bounce from 1500-2000 continuously instead of dropping down to idle speed...issue with having a very light flywheel?
2. Usually during a "cold start" (this happens very infrequently), I'll have NO power from throttle input AT ALL when trying to get going in 1st gear. On other occasions - again, after a cold start - I'll have a complete flat line of power (read: NO power) when shifting into 2nd gear from being around 3500-4000 in first gear (hitting around 2400RPMs in 2nd gear), only for the power to surge through in one jolt after a couple seconds of "nothing"...just ask my gf how she likes that (visualize her drinking water and then being splashed with a bunch of water from the jolt!)
3. Rough idle, but that's both because of the the tune (or lack thereof) and the "zero" timming of the cams. Presently going through the tuning thread for the twiggys to find out if there is info on where I should time them.
4. Some misfiring, most likely due to the aggressive timing of the MP3 ECU. Will be taken care of with the reflash. I had the CEL come up almost immediately when I first drove the car. It disappeared recently, but re-appeared in the last couple of days (need to read it to confirm that is is indeed still an 0300 code).
Still need some tuning (read: reflash), but in the meantime, is there anything I can do to help the idle and anything else? I've read the entire thread, and have come to the following conclusion:
Close the overlap, but I just don't know by how much since the only data I found in the thread (may have missed a post or 2), was one where CrazeeD played with settings, but he doesn't have the same setup as me...
1. When in neutral (to slow down), the revs bounce from 1500-2000 continuously instead of dropping down to idle speed...issue with having a very light flywheel?
2. Usually during a "cold start" (this happens very infrequently), I'll have NO power from throttle input AT ALL when trying to get going in 1st gear. On other occasions - again, after a cold start - I'll have a complete flat line of power (read: NO power) when shifting into 2nd gear from being around 3500-4000 in first gear (hitting around 2400RPMs in 2nd gear), only for the power to surge through in one jolt after a couple seconds of "nothing"...just ask my gf how she likes that (visualize her drinking water and then being splashed with a bunch of water from the jolt!)
3. Rough idle, but that's both because of the the tune (or lack thereof) and the "zero" timming of the cams. Presently going through the tuning thread for the twiggys to find out if there is info on where I should time them.
4. Some misfiring, most likely due to the aggressive timing of the MP3 ECU. Will be taken care of with the reflash. I had the CEL come up almost immediately when I first drove the car. It disappeared recently, but re-appeared in the last couple of days (need to read it to confirm that is is indeed still an 0300 code).
Still need some tuning (read: reflash), but in the meantime, is there anything I can do to help the idle and anything else? I've read the entire thread, and have come to the following conclusion:
Close the overlap, but I just don't know by how much since the only data I found in the thread (may have missed a post or 2), was one where CrazeeD played with settings, but he doesn't have the same setup as me...
