Turbohoses SMIC Results

[jflo]

iON's FMIC price is also based on fabrication time. their cores aren't generic units, they order different cores because jack wanted the core to be as big as possible without interfering with any of the body/frame along with the pipes. hiboost FMIC also has custom endtanks and piping.

and heatsoaking is a problem, because once the intercooler can't cool down the air, engine operating temps go up. engine operating temp is always going to go up regardless of what IC is used. if a good amount of air that can be correctly simulated to flow across the front of the car can be used, then results would be consistent.

 

[jaxmsp]

and heatsoaking is a problem, because once the intercooler can't cool down the air, engine operating temps go up. engine operating temp is always going to go up regardless of what IC is used. if a good amount of air that can be correctly simulated to flow across the front of the car can be used, then results would be consistent.

IMHO, jflo is right on the money. also, the high engine operating temps contibute to the heat soak potential, i.e., intercooler heatsoak does not result only from hot compressed air going through the intercooler, although that is big part of it. the other part is that there is a feedback cycle in effect here -- the hotter the engine gets (and therefore the intercooler, as well), the less the intercooler can cool the compressed air => the hotter the compressed air, the hotter the engine runs.

the only way any intercooler will not eventually heatsoak is to get good airflow forced through the cooling fins. otherwise the heat simply will not be able to dissipate. and the smic is in a very challenged location to obtain sufficient airflow.

 

[Turbohoses]

iON's FMIC price is also based on fabrication time. their cores aren't generic units, they order different cores because jack wanted the core to be as big as possible without interfering with any of the body/frame along with the pipes. hiboost FMIC also has custom endtanks and piping.

and heatsoaking is a problem, because once the intercooler can't cool down the air, engine operating temps go up. engine operating temp is always going to go up regardless of what IC is used. if a good amount of air that can be correctly simulated to flow across the front of the car can be used, then results would be consistent.

Ordering a core isn't the problem. "If" there were a pre-made end tank with everything we needed for our SMIC, then our price would be much different. Most applications have end tanks that can be purchased and made fairly easily which will considerably bring down the fabrication time.
We've made custom front mount and production units. "This" stock mount is much more difficult and involved. Again, there is much more fabrication time in the SMIC than a FMIC.

If you are looking at a performance gain for those that are going to modify and turn up boost considerably, then heat soaking will always be an issue and it is our main concern for those that are/aren't going to upgrade turbos, etc...
Each of our runs were made with identical engine temperatures and intake temperatures for the stock IC was 5 degrees more at the last run.

Ultimately, it boils down to a cost comparison vs. performance coupled with product. Paying for something that performs well, but smaller or paying for a FMIC that possibly makes equivalent to less hp for stock MSP owners.



Turbohoses R&D

 

[Turbohoses]

IMHO, jflo is right on the money. also, the high engine operating temps contibute to the heat soak potential, i.e., intercooler heatsoak does not result only from hot compressed air going through the intercooler, although that is big part of it. the other part is that there is a feedback cycle in effect here -- the hotter the engine gets (and therefore the intercooler, as well), the less the intercooler can cool the compressed air => the hotter the compressed air, the hotter the engine runs.

the only way any intercooler will not eventually heatsoak is to get good airflow forced through the cooling fins. otherwise the heat simply will not be able to dissipate. and the smic is in a very challenged location to obtain sufficient airflow.

IAT was 5 degrees more from our IC to the stock IC at the last run. Not too bad.

Yes, absolute operating conditions will change things considerably. However, these tests were done consistantly and driving the vehicle would be another test, done another way which will net other results. Our tests are an apple to apple test and we have established quantifiable data which will aid us in design.

All things considered must be applied. The "largest" intercooler that can be fitted can be good/bad. A FMIC will arguably have better access to air. However, it will restrict the air necessary for the radiator to cool the engine. The hot air transferred from the IC will directly enter the radiator and raise engine temperatures. For those that live in higher temperatures (90dg. f. +), turning on your air condition will possibly result in the engine overheating due to the lack of air flow to the radiator. Hopefully, most will drive in lower temp. enviroments.

If anyone has an intercooler from another company, please give us a call and provide us data and we'll be glad to run some conclusive tests and post results.

Also, a copy of the article/dyno sheet with phone numbers to the dyno operators will help us considerably in obtaining information necessary to validate the information that has been provided in the past threads.

Turbohoses R&D

 

[Quik89Si]

Been interested in the Turbohoses hardpipes set for a while, so thought I'd keep an eye on a thread about their other products. Good stuff! May be expensive, but it sure sounds like a quality product.

 

[speedhawaii]

ions piping is custom SS. also the core is sent from japan.

 

[Turbohoses]

ions piping is custom SS. also the core is sent from japan.

Stainless Steel is less costly than aluminum and slightly easier to work with. Parts manufactured in the U.S. will tend to be more expensive.

Turbohoses R&D

 

[wicked]

wow hoover,looks like people are paying good attention to your work.9 pages and counting.

 

[jurgs01]

ions piping is custom SS. also the core is sent from japan.

SS is a good material, but not the ideal material for intake piping. The main difference between SS and mild steel is corrosive properties, but other than than the way they transfer heat is the same. Aluminum will insulate better. Aluminum is also lighter. The price of both depends on the type of SS or aluminum, but they are both harder than mild steel to fabricate and bend and much more expensive than mild steel. SS is stronger than aluminum in most respects, but you are more worried about strength in exhaust applications, not intake. The only reason to use mild steel would be to cut costs.

 

[Sushi-Monster]

I was wondering if you did not include the polish into the piping, will you sell it for less... After all, T-6 aluminum comes (usually unless specially ordered) without any polish of any type. If the polish wasn't there, assumingly, the price should go down by quite a bit. But of course, a lot of people here want pipes with polish... What is the price with out the polish?

Oh hey, wassup jurgs... the new MSP kickin ass?

 

[Turbohoses]

I was wondering if you did not include the polish into the piping, will you sell it for less... After all, T-6 aluminum comes (usually unless specially ordered) without any polish of any type. If the polish wasn't there, assumingly, the price should go down by quite a bit. But of course, a lot of people here want pipes with polish... What is the price with out the polish?

Oh hey, wassup jurgs... the new MSP kickin ass?

Unfortunately, we only sell the piping one way. All of these are done in bulk.

Also, I noticed another thread where you stated that aluminum is cheaper than steel. Possibly in some cases, but not this one. This is aircraft quality aluminum which is considerably more expensive in raw material than steel. There is also a heating process which needs to be done before it can even be bent.

Thanks,

Turbohoses R&D

 

[Sushi-Monster]

Ah, very true... almost forgot that... where I work, I just got a pipe bender... sad really.... was thinking of making my own pipes, but really, take a torch, heat it to a mellow yellow and away you go... Too bad about the polish thing, cause heh, I know the pipes are cheaper when not polished...

On the cost note, unless I'm mistaken, steel is still more expenive than T-6... and stainless more so, but I live in Canada, maybe our cost on materials are cheaper! But AirCraft aluminum??? Is there such a thing???? hahaha

Still, using aluminum of such a high certification is very commendable. And to use it in our cars is very understanding... like as S-U said b4, if your going to do it, do it right the first time. But do we really need to have such nice stuff when you don't need that high grade of aluminum for our cars?

 

[4001]

Turbohoses, I dont know If I asked this and you answered or not, but is it possible for you keep the specs to build the IC with the extar bolt altough most want it without to keep cost down?

 

[Turbohoses]

Turbohoses, I dont know If I asked this and you answered or not, but is it possible for you keep the specs to build the IC with the extar bolt altough most want it without to keep cost down?

Although our testing is just about complete, we are still trying to make that one bolt work without an additional charge. I can not say if we can do it, but we are trying.

Turbohoses R&D

 

[Turbohoses]

Ah, very true... almost forgot that... where I work, I just got a pipe bender... sad really.... was thinking of making my own pipes, but really, take a torch, heat it to a mellow yellow and away you go... Too bad about the polish thing, cause heh, I know the pipes are cheaper when not polished...

On the cost note, unless I'm mistaken, steel is still more expenive than T-6... and stainless more so, but I live in Canada, maybe our cost on materials are cheaper! But AirCraft aluminum??? Is there such a thing???? hahaha

Still, using aluminum of such a high certification is very commendable. And to use it in our cars is very understanding... like as S-U said b4, if your going to do it, do it right the first time. But do we really need to have such nice stuff when you don't need that high grade of aluminum for our cars?

Our pricing for aluminum is considerably higher than steel. Steel is the cheapest metal to use and purchase here. In the past few months the costs of metal sky rocketed due to our metals being exported to China. This affected our ability to keep pricing where we initially anticipated. Our second batch of piping cost us 10.00 more per kit than our first set. However, Street Unit still absorbed the cost and did not mark it up to his customers.

Turbohoses philosophy is not always to use the best materials in every situation, but to use them where we have found substantial results. Our tests concluded that when steel vs. aluminum was used, the IAT temperatures were 30 dg. higher, which is a substantial difference.

Turbohoses R&D

 

[Sushi-Monster]

that would explain quite a bit of why your material cost so much... Yeah China uses almost 3 times as much resources then we do. It's quite amazing as how much they just import on raw materials alone....

 

[wicked]

Sorry turbo hoses,but this guy pissed me off.he should have kept it to himself
http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?t=77001&page=7&pp=15

 

[Turbohoses]

Sorry turbo hoses,but this guy pissed me off.he should have kept it to himself
http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?t=77001&page=7&pp=15

All we can do is post data and information necessary to validate the products that we design. Some times they work, some times they don't, but either way we will post our results so that the end user can know the benefit of each product.
We hope that this information helps all of the MSP community in making a decision that works for the individual.

Turbohoses R&D

 

[DSMConvert]

my response was due to the fact that you initially bashed my products for absolutely no reason. A fellow member simply asked a question about BOVs and you instantly responded that my products were crap. Now if he had of asked your opinion then you could of given it, but he didnt, you just stuck your nose where it didnt belong. I have no problem with turbohoses.com I have a problem with you acting like their PR.

 

[StreetUnit]

You do have a problem with Turbohoses. You keep challenging your steel pipes to the aluminum ones.

"Watch out overpriced vendors....we're coming for you...."

Watch out MAZDASPEEDERS, cheap knockoffs are hitting the market.