turbo, supercharger, fsze, or ITB'???

[ajkulish]

So next summer I am rebuilding my engine. Or if I. Go turbo or super I will buy a new low mileage engine depending on the price.

But I have questions

Fsze:
If I go fsze I will rebuild my engine, go with stock rods and high compression fsze pistons. Also it would be bored 0.020 over. I would also get a header and the fsze and corksport power series cams. The biggest issue is finding an fsze ecu and harness. With catback and intake already would it be reasonable to aim for 180 hp na this way?

ITB's:
Is it possible to itb a protege? I really don't know. I know if it was possible I would have to adjust the way the throttle linkage worked and idk ablout the maf and temp sensor. Can anyone give insight on this? How much power would these make.

Turbo:
If I boosted I would probably go msp swap. I know with fmic and boost controller I could make 200 hp. I don't want ridiculous undrivable hp. I want to be fuel efficient when I have to and quick when I need to. How much would a full swap cost. And does anyone have a full list of conversion parts?

Supercharger:
I have seen a few people lately who have done this. I know the power would be better than a turbo. What parts would I need. Supercharger, belt, pipe to intake manifold, intake pipe, and oil lines. Is that it? It seems like it could be cheap. Would I need an intercooler? And what would I need for mounting hardware?

I need to get all this s*** sorted out before I decide the route to go. Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks.

 

[Protege03ak46]

Fsze:
If I go fsze I will rebuild my engine, go with stock rods and high compression fsze pistons. Also it would be bored 0.020 over. I would also get a header and the fsze and corksport power series cams. The biggest issue is finding an fsze ecu and harness. With catback and intake already would it be reasonable to aim for 180 hp na this way?

180 if your lucky, NA is just not the way to go on a protege. to much money to make such little power. Not worth it imo

ITB's:
Is it possible to itb a protege? I really don't know. I know if it was possible I would have to adjust the way the throttle linkage worked and idk ablout the maf and temp sensor. Can anyone give insight on this? How much power would these make.

ITB's can be found from a hachi or an older sport bike. There usually sub 400 for a set. That said, you will need a stand alone ecu. Also gana need custom throttle linkage and adapter plate. Numbers are a dead zone, no ones done it so who knows what will happen. Would be interesting to see it done.

Turbo:
If I boosted I would probably go msp swap. I know with fmic and boost controller I could make 200 hp. I don't want ridiculous undrivable hp. I want to be fuel efficient when I have to and quick when I need to. How much would a full swap cost. And does anyone have a full list of conversion parts?

Full swap? Waist. Just rebuild the motor you have. You could most likely go with all forged parts and still come up less than a swap. Last time i looked, msp motor was selling for 5000 without a tranny...

Supercharger:
I have seen a few people lately who have done this. I know the power would be better than a turbo. What parts would I need. Supercharger, belt, pipe to intake manifold, intake pipe, and oil lines. Is that it? It seems like it could be cheap. Would I need an intercooler? And what would I need for mounting hardware?

The power, wont be better than a turbo. Sure you'll have more power throughout the power band, which is nice, but you most likely wont be able to push it as far as a turbo. No body, except in Taiwan, makes a kit, so custom parts would be needed. Its also not as easy to just turn up the boost. you need custom pulleys and such...

 

[ajkulish]

Itbs would be fun to do, but since I'm gonna be throwing cash out for this I mean I want to be sure it'll be worth it. And I'm sure the power from the supercharger would really depend on the model or sc and the size of crank and pully. But by full swap on turbo I mean the turbo swap. I would go msp turbo, mani, s and j pipes, and intake I guess. How much would that cost. I might get a new motor if I boost. There is one on the forums for 600 in nc with 45k.

 

[ajkulish]

So overall thoughts adam?

 

[Protege03ak46]

If your like me, money doesn't grow on trees and you work for every penny. Dont dilly dally on projects that havent been explored before, at least not now. Go turbo

 

[ajkulish]

thank you. one vote for turbo.

 

[yudkib]

im voting for turbo as well. ITB is more show than go, but right now there is one member trying to ITB a BP GTR engine in his MSP. yeah, should be interesting.
NA you probably wont get to 220. focus has a FSZE intake mani, and i think he had a FSZE ECU not so long ago, but sourcing parts for a swap like that will be a b**** and really wont gain you THAT much. theres way better ways to spend the money.
supercharger is not a swap for the faint at heart. theres not a ton of people who have done it, and sourcing parts for that involves custom-making them or finding kits they made like 10 copies of.

MSP swap doesnt involve a different motor, the longblock is functionally identical. the turbo system, an oil cooler, a tapped upper oil pan, and a different water line setup are the only "motor" differences. you can get all of those separately and add them on to any FSDE. theres a couple other things like one check valve for the EVAP system, slightly different cat configuration, MSP ECU, etc that are different, but the motors arent.

and i dont get why you would change the engine or rebuild it at this point. like i mentioned to you, its totally unnecessary unless you failed a leakdown or compression test. that money is much better spent saving toward real internals instead of OEM if you ever NEED a rebuild.

at 220whp, youre looking at a little more than you posted up there. boost control + FMIC =/= 220whp. you can get to 200 with a decent midpipe, FMIC, boost control and maybe some light EMS, but 220 is a little more work. you need another power adder like an exhaust manifold, switching to a full exhaust (vs. just a midpipe), or stepping up to a bigger turbo to clear 220whp without risking your motor. but if you save your rebuild monies, you can go hog wild until it blows, and hopefully have enough saved for a built shortblock.

 

[ajkulish]

So I would basically need the parts you listed earlier in your pm. But aren't fsdes a motor that tends to not handle boost well after 100k? I have 154000 miles right now. That's not too much to boost?

 

[Protege03ak46]

So I would basically need the parts you listed earlier in your pm. But aren't fsdes a motor that tends to not handle boost well after 100k? I have 154000 miles right now. That's not too much to boost?

Its a motor that doesnt handle boost at all.

 

[yudkib]

^well put. the OEM FSDE doesnt respond all that great to boost, i havent read much about how many miles is "too many".

i would still recommend keeping your motor and adding the turbo, but dont blow all your dollars on mods. keep some aside in case things go south.

 

[fishdonotbounce]

Aj, let me save you the money, time, and many frustration filled days. Don't go turbo. Don't supercharge. Don't boost at all. Stay away from major mods, start saving your money now, and keep saving so you can buy yourself a new car when you're out of college and have a job. I was the biggest advocate for the proteges but now that I'm back to stock, I love it. The ride is smooth, the car is reliable, and I don't have to spend ever day worrying about it blowing up on me like the turbo did.

If I could go back to being your age, I would stop my dumb ass from spending so much money on the P5.

This is my honest opinion. Good luck with whatever you do.

 

[yudkib]

going for 200whp wont break the bank, and makes the car a lot of fun... especially if you track down MSP suspension goodies. pushing more toward like 220+... eh...
i dunno, if you want to go fast, hes right - get a different car.

turbo and goodies to get you to 200whp (which is double the NA FSDE) might run you 1500-2000 depending on how you do things. i couldnt imagine driving a non-boosted protege, and the MSP i had was a s*** ton of fun, even though i didnt keep it long enough to push it past ~185whp.

 

[joka1]

I would build the motor, get the steedfast manifold, a nice turbo, good wastegate and some EMS like timing/fuel control... run 15 psi and w/ the simple mods like exhaust and intake and u should be at 250+ ...........JMO, I am trying to run alot more on a cheap turbo

Rob

 

[HKPRO5]

Supercharger:
I have seen a few people lately who have done this. I know the power would be better than a turbo. What parts would I need. Supercharger, belt, pipe to intake manifold, intake pipe, and oil lines. Is that it? It seems like it could be cheap. Would I need an intercooler? And what would I need for mounting hardware?

I vote supercharge....=)
I would recommend going sc because if the reliability. I have a clutch on my sc so when im not racing at the track or going up a hill i have the SC switched off. Saves gas while still having fun. Its also cheap as hell. The only real down side is that you loose the A/C.

The hardest thing would be sourcing the bracket. It wouldnt take much if you could make it yourself though. Its actually quite simple. You will also have to make an inlet and outlet plates as well.

Parts list.
SLK230 Clutched supercharger ($100-$300) (Fudamsp has one for $100 ish)
Piping, couplers, clamps ($50- $100)
Inlet, outlet and mounting bracket ($100-$300 Depending if you do it yourself)
Engine management (Im using a SSAFC V2) ($250)
Bov, adapter, welding ($100-$275)

The things that are different from the Mr.Speed kit that I have done is a custom larger crank pulley puts me at 9.5psi (with the stock pulley you will only make about 3.5-4 psi)
Wrx 440cc injectors, and in air to air intercooler. I have yet to dyno the car though. Im waiting on a new intake manifold that I will port and polish.


This is what it used to look like before the intercooler

If you have any questions about SC let me know.

-Cres

 

[ajkulish]

Do you have to have engine management for a sc?
And I'm not really looking for "fast" I'm looking for quick and fun. I am looking to make my car get up and go. This is my graduation present from my parents so I don't want to waste it. I want to get good power but they want to go with the cheapest option that gets me power.

 

[ajkulish]

Do you have to have engine management for a sc?
And I'm not really looking for "fast" I'm looking for quick and fun. I am looking to make my car get up and go. This is my graduation present from my parents so I don't want to waste it. I want to get good power but they want to go with the cheapest option that gets me power.

 

[HKPRO5]

Supercharger.

Yea you will need engine management when boosting. Unless you can get the MSP setup.

 

[magnumP5]

Everything you've listed has already been done. If you're looking for 180+ hp N/A, don't waste your time because you'll never get there. FWIW, you can't use FSZE pistons with a .020" overbore as they are the same diameter as stock. Few people here remember him but installshield had the highest HP N/A build that did 196 whp but nearly all the engine internal components were custom-made.

If you want quick and fun the MSP turbo kit is the way to go, every other option will be more expensive. Find a stock/replacement manifold, turbo, some sort of FMIC and intake, stock/replacement downpipe, some sort of oil feed/return mechanism and a MSP ECU (if 5-speed) or FPR (if auto) and you're good to go. All that should cost you AT MOST $2,000 and will net you AT LEAST 170 hp to the crank. If you feel that isn't fast enough start adding other bolt-ons like a larger exhaust. As long as you don't touch the boost pressure or mess with the stock tune you will be absolutely fine. Although with your high mileage I would recommend a full tune up (timing belt, all fluids, spark plugs, etc.).

 

[HKPRO5]

(supercharger would be cheaper... lol you can run it with the P5 ECU)

 

[magnumP5]

(supercharger would be cheaper... lol you can run it with the P5 ECU)

Price may be irrelevant at this point but the turbocharger will make more power at stock levels and fuel economy will not suffer out-of-boost (just like the supercharger).

Regarding the P5 ECU with a supercharger I would only trust it out of boost. I would not trust the stock timing map of the P5 ECU while under even as much as 4 psi of pressure. Thing is, the MSP ECU/setup is proven to work and last for a long time in its stock form. The supercharger/P5 ECU setup can hardly claim that and add the bonus that the MSP setup is a direct bolt-on affair that retains A/C and I think you have a pretty good argument for that case.