^^^ Turbo Performance Kit ^^^ Stage I , II and III

[perfworks]

I know this is an old thread...but...



I think somebody would be nuts to run 15psi on a stock FS...

I've seen guys bend rods at HALF that level. I'm not sure how anyone could reccomend those levels of boost. Even Flyin Miata can't attest to running 15psi on a B6 - which is a stronger motor.

Thoughts?

Your missing the point that with the proper engine managemnt those boost levels are possible. With the properly set up FI system and intercooler efficiency these numbers are accurate. People have blown their motors on this board from lack of ignition control. They throw fuel at the problem. You cant expect to have an FMU to satisfy fuel enrichment and run higher than 6psi. You need to have a steady A/F ratio thru out the rpm band along with optimal timing curves for every load and throttle position. If you keep PCP's at around 5-7 degrees ATDC there is no reason why these boost levels are not attainable. I will agree that the miata 1.6and 1.8 are much better motors for boost. But we are talking about 2 bar here . once you start to get to 17-20 psi on the stock internals then we will see some areas of weakness with both the rods and pistons. I dont think that they can take those kinds of pressures along with disapating the heat.

 

[Darin]

Your missing the point that with the proper engine managemnt those boost levels are possible. With the properly set up FI system and intercooler efficiency these numbers are accurate. People have blown their motors on this board from lack of ignition control. They throw fuel at the problem. You cant expect to have an FMU to satisfy fuel enrichment and run higher than 6psi. You need to have a steady A/F ratio thru out the rpm band along with optimal timing curves for every load and throttle position. If you keep PCP's at around 5-7 degrees ATDC there is no reason why these boost levels are not attainable. I will agree that the miata 1.6and 1.8 are much better motors for boost. But we are talking about 2 bar here . once you start to get to 17-20 psi on the stock internals then we will see some areas of weakness with both the rods and pistons. I dont think that they can take those kinds of pressures along with disapating the heat.

I'm not missing the point about Fuel - I'm talking ROD strength...I've seen FS motors go pretty quick. I'd believe 8-10 psi for awhile - but holy crap 15psi on stock pistons/rods? In my opinion, that's a recipe for disaster, no matter how rich the conditions. If 15psi wasn't 'recommended' on a B6 or a BP, I'd NEVER get close to that on a FS, w/o having some money to replace the rods/pistons in the bank.

(shrug)...

Otherwise it looks like a great kit -

 

[keyserscott]

Looks like micahs kits workin good. How about a web site to go with that turbo sandwich? We have essential, spoolin, fprotege sites. perforks looks like a good kit but without a website ehhh?!! j/k Let's move on to a new subject, FMU's and standalone's piggyback's etc. ??? Your thoughts. I haven't seen anything on that subject. FMU vs. Ignition control.....your thoughts... Too many buyers out there are lookin for a good looking kit, not lookin for a truely safe kit. Tell me why your kits the best with an FMU rather than a Stand alone or a piggyback.

 

[Darin]

waht does an FMU have to do w/ ignition control? The two aren't related.

(shrug)

 

[keyserscott]

They are not related at all. that's the point. I feel that a good kit should cover ignition as well. Fuel and ignition are important to a kit. Flyin Protege and Spoolin, the highest selling kits dont have ignition coverage. I feel that both these kits, both of which are designing standalones, need these for their kits to be effective.

 

[keyserscott]

the fact that they are now coming out with standalones etc. Spoolin w/ microtech proves it is in demand.

 

[Darin]

why do you feel that? in a low boost kit, most standard ingnitions work fine...adding a Link, Tec, etc, would simply price the kit beyond the average consumer.

(shrug)...

Do you want a $3500 150whp kit?
or a $5000 200whp kit?


How fast = how much do you want to spend.

 

[keyserscott]

not nessessarily, Perforks kit is 3700 with a piggyback. Hiboost, although I'm a little leary on their kit utilizes a Haltech and is 3500. They took a poll of blown engines, 25% of turbo kit buyers blew their engines. that's scarey and bad for business.

 

[Darin]

maybe they just had a poorly engineered turbo kit? (shrug).

FM has been using FMUs for a decade with GREAT results on low-boost applications.

...if it ain't broke...

 

[keyserscott]

I know what you mean. But consider the average buyer, like me. I come to the boards and I see 25% of the kis buyers blow their engines. FMU's usually work, your right. But, if you had the choice, souldn't you chooce a piggyback or standalone over an FMU???

 

[Darin]

It depends how much I wanted to spend There is something nice about the simpicity of a FMU - the band-aid fix that it is.

I've used an FMU w/ my PGT for a couple years...flawless..and nothing to worry about. No parameters to enter...of course, no way to really 'tune' either

 

[keyserscott]

Okay, what kit would you buy if you had an auto? considering all of the options?

 

[Darin]

auto tranny?

I don't think I'd do boost - I'm not sure how much power the Prot tranny can handle - I doubt it's any stronger than the Probe/MX6 tranny - they fail w/ regularity.

If I 'had' to, I'd go FlyinMiata. There is simply no subsitute for quality - not diggin' on the other makers, I just 'know' FM. I know they will w/o a doubt stand behind their product 100%.

Word of advice? Get a Good Transmission cooler.

 

[keyserscott]

Point taken. I've been reading up on their product. They look to have a good grasp on the limitations of the tranny. Their placement of the cooler along with their retention of both cats is a plus. BUT, their installation cost is high, about 1K!!! I'm lookin for a good installation place in my area.

 

[Darin]

ahh...here's what I do:

Find some local guys who actually LIKE to work on cars - feed them pizza and beer during a 'Tech Day' at my place

They get off on doing crap to cars...I get my car stuff done

 

[WShade]

As a rule of thumb I stay out of these debates beacuse you never know the truth behind a blown motor. The owner is usually too embarrassed to tell the truth, it is always some faulty product or badly built kit which caused the demise of the engine. You always want to push the limits thinking it will not happen to me. But, guess what ....BOOM. If you follow the builders recommendations with reference to boost levels for your application and not drive it like its a damn rally car, you will be ok. On the other hand you can get a bad apple, thats life.

 

[Darin]

As a rule of thumb I stay out of these debates beacuse you never know the truth behind a blown motor. The owner is usually too embarrassed to tell the truth, it is always some faulty product or badly built kit which caused the demise of the engine. You always want to push the limits thinking it will not happen to me. But, guess what ....BOOM. If you follow the builders recommendations with reference to boost levels for your application and not drive it like its a damn rally car, you will be ok. On the other hand you can get a bad apple, thats life.

EXACTLY

 

[keyserscott]

So, their usually overboosting? come on? i'm seroiusly considering boosting. what's the suggestion? I'm looking for 170whp as adaily driver.

 

[Darin]

I'd say:

Setting HP goals is a BAD idea....maybe your goal should be:

"I'd like as much power as I can safely run..."

With your ATX, I'd doubt it could handle the torque 170whp would bring...

 

[keyserscott]

then what's the option for me?