Throttle Boby Modification

[oldenglish82]

We just purchased one thrusday and only have 120 miles. My questionis warranty. Will this affect my warranty at all?

 

[dieseldriver]

Just remove the grounding cable when you take it in if you feel uncomfortable that's all.

We just purchased one thrusday and only have 120 miles. My questionis warranty. Will this affect my warranty at all?

 

[eyeballs]

Anyone try this on a 6MT? Throttle response on my 2 is worse than on the 5. I was actually thinking of trying it on that 1st. Its pretty bad coming from a cable-driven setup with lightweight flywheel and hardened drivetrain mounts. Getting the hang of consistent rev-matches on these DBW setups is taking awhile. I'm hoping I can get the same improvement you've noticed on the auto equipped 5.

 

[metalfab]

I may give this a try, how long is the cable and do you have a photo that shows the entire 'run'? I'm a mechanically challenged.

 

[MarkVII88]

I second this sentiment. I mean your statement about connecting from the drivers side ground point to one of the screws on the throttle body is simple enough but I'm confused by the photos you posted showing your engine bay. The stock grounding cable goes beneath that fluid reservoir and into the battery box and attaches at the negative battery terminal. Your engine bay photo shows the grounding cable that attaches to the throttle body also going into the battery box. Is it supposed to do this or can I just go directly from the grounding point directly to the throttle body? From a quick measuring under the hood with a tape measure, it looks like 30-36 inches of cable should be sufficient. Thanks.

I may give this a try, how long is the cable and do you have a photo that shows the entire 'run'? I'm a mechanically challenged.

 

[ukulele]

Sounds like you made an "electrical bypass" whatever relies on electrons at the TB is getting them much faster and in larger quantities now that it's tied to the chassis ground. I'm sure Mazda engineers know this can be done but for emissions reasons and to prevent the kids from "snapping their necks" from no TB delay and a mom with a heavy foot, this is what they came up with. Kudos! Just when I thought there was not much else you can mod on a mini-minivan...... I was wrong!

I have seen 5-point grounding stuff and I always thought it was snake oil at best but I guess it does work after all.

 

[xxxmonoxidechil]

There is no such thing as too many grounds performance wise. And Mazda has had many issues in the past not installing enough on there vehicles from the factory. The old KL engine cars are typical for having grounding issues for instance.

 

[eyeballs]

I took a shortcut and used a battery cable from autozone for $7 or so since it was heavy gauge and already included ends. I did end up trying this mod on my 2, and noticed no improvement. Haven't been motivated to try it on the 5, though I'd be curious to see if anyone with the 6MT notices improvement.

 

[MarkVII88]

I decided to see for myself how this easy modification worked on my 2012 Mazda5 Sport AT. I used 10 gauge insulated, marine-grade copper wire with crimp-on end-connectors. I used zip ties to help secure and route the wire in the engine bay and keep the wire from rubbing or interfering with any other components. I really do think that I can tell the difference with this extra ground to the throttle body. We've gotten a bunch of snow in the last few days and the driving has been a bit trickier than on dry or simply wet roads, so detecting the improved throttle tip-in hasn't been straight forward. But the lag before take-up that was present seems to be much less pronounced with the new ground. 10 gauge wire sure isn't as beefy as battery cable but how thick does it need to be for 30 inches of wire to sufficiently ground the throttle body? Other posts to this forum have indicated that this mod reduced their fuel mileage but they also suspected their driving style was altered by the improved pedal feel such that they became more of a lead-foot. I'm monitoring the mileage with my ScanGaugeII and will remove the ground if I think it's hurting my MPG.

 

[mustbemazda]

Update sought: any thoughts on MPG effect, MarkVII88, in the intervening months? Merely curious, likely gonna try this mod in any case. Thanks.

 

[flcruising]

I did this about 6 months ago with some 12 AWG wire connected to a local valve cover bolt. If it had made a noticeable improvement my wife would have commented, but she never said, so I assume not. Nothing changed with the mpg either. If it makes you feel better, do it, otherwise I think it was a waste of time.

 

[MarkVII88]

At first, I thought that I could really notice an improved throttle response with this ground to the throttle body. Tip-in seemed to be a bit sharper but after 6 months I don't really notice much difference any more. I've not noticed any gains or penalties in terms of MPG. Our other car is a 2008 Mazda5 with automatic trans and the throttle response on this car still seems crisper than on the 2012. With the 2012 Mazda5, they used a taller final drive gear ratio because, with the 2.5L MZR engine, it makes 163 ft. lbs. torque instead of the 148 with the older 2.3L MZR. All else being equal, I think this taller gearing is responsible for the lazier throttle response in the 2012-2013 Mazda5.

Update sought: any thoughts on MPG effect, MarkVII88, in the intervening months? Merely curious, likely gonna try this mod in any case. Thanks.

 

[Silentnoise713]

Before trying this, ask yourself if the throttle lag bothers you. If it truly does, follow the Flex Innovation's install guide and DIY ground all 5 pts. Best if you do this without telling your significant other and let them be the guinea pig. Then again, if the significant other is not a picky driver, it not be important to them either way.

On my previous manual, the TBW lag is very noticeable and a true PITA for any sportingly drives. Blipping the throttle to rev-march or heel toeing is a challenge. It seems to be programmed to force you to do conservative throttle inputs. There was a COBB article where they dissected Mazda's DBW (on a MS3 but you get the same principle). The link is now dead but the previous thread on this has the major points quoted, of which this particular comment from COBB stood out to me to this day:

...most modern EMS programming was established to lessen the emissions output of the motors, so
throttle opening and closing delays have been implemented to lessen the emission output of the
motors...not to piss you off.

The question is does better ground really make any difference? I don't know and am also a little suspect but my butt (and foot) dyno says it something was altered...

IMO, any mpg impact would only be felt by those who frequent stop lights. If your are mainly a highway/backroad cruiser, you would not notice any difference since you are more likely on a steady state throttle.

That said, on my current GT (auto) I find the throttle response is just fine! There is no discernible lag that bothers me to take action. I have not and don't feel the need to put the FI ground kit on this car.

 

[Secondtyme]

My problem with DBW systems is the "i'm smarter than you and I say you don't need 100% throttle when you floor it" syndrome. I noticed this much more on my 08 Honda Fit than with my 06 Mazda. My Fit would simply refuse to give me more than 3/4 throttle, period, end of argument. So I got a Three Drive throttle signal modifier. I basically boosts the amperage of the signal coming from the pedal going to the throttle plate. The difference in that car was absolutely night and day, it drove like a cable throttle car from that day forward. My mazda doesn't seem to have that problem (so far)

 

[Silentnoise713]

My problem with DBW systems is the "i'm smarter than you and I say you don't need 100% throttle when you floor it" syndrome. I noticed this much more on my 08 Honda Fit than with my 06 Mazda. My Fit would simply refuse to give me more than 3/4 throttle, period, end of argument. So I got a Three Drive throttle signal modifier. I basically boosts the amperage of the signal coming from the pedal going to the throttle plate. The difference in that car was absolutely night and day, it drove like a cable throttle car from that day forward. My mazda doesn't seem to have that problem (so far)

This is one of the key points COBB pointed out. Below is a summary from their research (full link is dead). I do agree DBW is good for the common consumer. Its all about making the car easier/efficient/safe for the lowest common denominator (smarter than you). It also allows integrated systems to work together but like everything else in life, there are tradeoffs.

What this means to you:
...most modern engines will never show a 0% TPS since the throttle blade is always kept open (by 2-7%) to start the engine and to maintain idle.
...some modern engines will never report a 100% TPS while at WOT since their TBW system may have been programmed to only open up to a predetermined point.
...you can change the Rev Limits on an engine by tricking the ECU about the reported RPM but you may not be able to get the motor to accelerate past a certain RPM since the throttle body has been programmed to close by a predetermined RPM.
...porting of most modern throttle bodies is not a good idea unless you have the ability to fully recalibrate that system.
...most modern engines will not allow the motor to start immediately after the battery has been
disconnected then re-connected or if the ECU has been re-set because the systems needs approximately 5 seconds to fully calibrate the TBW system. If the battery has been disconnected then re-connected or if the ECU has been re-set, please allow the key to stay in the ON position for a minimum of 10 seconds to allow the TBW system to calibrate before you try to start the engine.
...providing a constant +12V to the throttle actuator motor will fully open the throttle blade, providing a constant -12V (reversing the polarity) to the throttle actuator motor will fully close the throttle blade.
...most modern EMS logic has been calibrated to control the throttle blade opening and closing speed. We have seen where the throttle blade actually opens slower if you slap down the gas pedal versus gradually depressing the gas pedal.
...most modern EMS programming was established to lessen the emissions output of the motors, so throttle opening and closing delays have been implemented to lessen the emission output of the motors...not to piss you off.
...most modern vehicles have some sort of Traction Control System which use the Electric Throttle Bodies to control engine torque output.
...most modern vehicles have some artificial throttle response programmed into their control. For instance, if the driver is pushing down on the APP 20% the TPS sensor may report a 50% reading. The ECU is creating artificial throttle response by opening the throttle valve much more that the driver is requesting.

 

[skyhawk]

I don't know why the throttle body is left electrically 'floating' (i.e. ungrounded). Maybe there is a purpose. Maybe something bad will happen if one of the pins in the
component circuitry attached to the throttle body touches ground.

I once checked the thottle body for electrical noise. and posted a thread. http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/show...y-loudboxer)&p=4771492&highlight=#post4771492