http://serendipity.magnet.ch/wtc.html
This guy thinks it's an inside job... is he on some cheap drugs or what?
Jc
This guy thinks it's an inside job... is he on some cheap drugs or what?
Jc
This is what cheap drugs do to you...
- Thread starter JcsMP3
- Start date
Did anyone read the whole article?
Doesn't sound completly unfounded, however if this has ANY truth to it, then we as Americans need to pay more attention to what we are being fed by the media and our government.
I am Not saying I believe what these people are saying...But an open mind is better than a closed, narrow minded one.
Doesn't sound completly unfounded, however if this has ANY truth to it, then we as Americans need to pay more attention to what we are being fed by the media and our government.
I am Not saying I believe what these people are saying...But an open mind is better than a closed, narrow minded one.
deepcover6
Member
I'd much rather go to this site(www.whatreallyhappened.com) for some info on the covert ops side(laugh).......Or Counterpunch.com (scratch)
hakushi no sakura
Member
It's an interesting read I must say. I'm quite sure if I have any background in civil engineering or materials engineering, I'd be able to find the weakpoints in this arguments. But since I have no knowledge about this topic, all the points the author makes seems totally pausible.
Conspiracies are always fun to read about; whether to believe them or not, well, unless you're paranoid, there's no need.
Conspiracies are always fun to read about; whether to believe them or not, well, unless you're paranoid, there's no need.
MP3-Owner said:
Exactly what I was gonna say. I hate how people are so quick to be closed minded and dismiss everything...and go with the flow and call people a moron, etc.
I don't know if it's true or not, but it does make some good points that I would like to see people try to disprove.
Actually, that site raises a question that the Europeans have been raising for quite some time. Who really did it?
One of the first things that I remember thinking after seeing footage of the pentagon on 9/11 was "how in the hell did a 757 do that little damage?" The next question I remember asking later in the day was "how in the h*ll did they know who did it almost before it happened?" There are some vaild points brought up by the site, but most of it is really reaching. Without a clear knowledge of civil engineering I'd just be making a guess as to how the trade center came down. Someone could tell me that the pilots were under alien control and they had 2000 lbs of C4 on the planes to aid in the effort and I'd have no ammunition to argue. I wasn't there, I know only what the media have fed me, and I'm not in a position to analyze.
As far as the pentagon is concerned, I saw the footage as soon as it came on TV and I couldn't then and can't now figure out how something that was twice as wide as the exploded section did no damage to either side of the supposed fuselage impact. Also, they did say it clipped power lines (which sag down between poles) and the plane didn't hit either pole to either side even though the wingspan is much wider than the distance between the poles. I read about that back shortly after it happened. I remember reading a Reuters article (the one quoted on that site) back when it was published shortly after 9/11 that said that they found debris from the plane that crashed over Pennsylvania over 8 miles away from the crash site. That ONLY happens if there was an explosion at a much higher altitude and the plane breaks up. Witnesses talk about an explosion in the air and a second aircraft. Most of the questions that are raised about what really happened are raised by media sources outside the U.S. (with U.S. correspondents). Our media is notably silent about any inconsistencies that have come to light.
Do I think this guy is right? Who the h*ll knows. But I don't think we have or will have in our lifetimes the whole story of everything that happened that day. Considering our media's history of spin doctoring and the history of rhetoric that comes out of Wash. DC, I'd say it would be a really good idea to keep an open mind.
One of the first things that I remember thinking after seeing footage of the pentagon on 9/11 was "how in the hell did a 757 do that little damage?" The next question I remember asking later in the day was "how in the h*ll did they know who did it almost before it happened?" There are some vaild points brought up by the site, but most of it is really reaching. Without a clear knowledge of civil engineering I'd just be making a guess as to how the trade center came down. Someone could tell me that the pilots were under alien control and they had 2000 lbs of C4 on the planes to aid in the effort and I'd have no ammunition to argue. I wasn't there, I know only what the media have fed me, and I'm not in a position to analyze.
As far as the pentagon is concerned, I saw the footage as soon as it came on TV and I couldn't then and can't now figure out how something that was twice as wide as the exploded section did no damage to either side of the supposed fuselage impact. Also, they did say it clipped power lines (which sag down between poles) and the plane didn't hit either pole to either side even though the wingspan is much wider than the distance between the poles. I read about that back shortly after it happened. I remember reading a Reuters article (the one quoted on that site) back when it was published shortly after 9/11 that said that they found debris from the plane that crashed over Pennsylvania over 8 miles away from the crash site. That ONLY happens if there was an explosion at a much higher altitude and the plane breaks up. Witnesses talk about an explosion in the air and a second aircraft. Most of the questions that are raised about what really happened are raised by media sources outside the U.S. (with U.S. correspondents). Our media is notably silent about any inconsistencies that have come to light.
Do I think this guy is right? Who the h*ll knows. But I don't think we have or will have in our lifetimes the whole story of everything that happened that day. Considering our media's history of spin doctoring and the history of rhetoric that comes out of Wash. DC, I'd say it would be a really good idea to keep an open mind.
I found this part to be the most intresting, the motive for the acts of 9-11....
"Not only did Bush announce a "War on Terrorism", he even spoke stupidly of a "crusade", invoking memories of the medieval Christian crusades against Islam to recover "the Holy Land", though these days it is more accurate to speak of gaining control of the oil fields, which is another reason (actually, the primary reason) why America has given itself permission to invade whatever countries it chooses to. And it's not just Middle Eastern oil there are huge oil deposits in the Caspian Basin (larger than in Saudia Arabia). In 1998 Unocal testified before the House Subcommittee on Asia and the Pacific that a pipeline across Afghanistan was crucial to transport Caspian Basin oil to the Indian Ocean. Bush and the American oil companies would dearly like to lay such a pipeline across Afghanistan, but, say some, they cannot do so because the Taleban
have been demanding too large a per centage as their cut for allowing the pipeline project to proceed. Hence, the oil monopoly needs to overthrow the Kabul government, install their own government, and proceed with the pipeline project. Sherman H. Skolnick, The Overthrow of the American Republic, Part 2
George Monbiot: America's Pipe Dream
In fact from February to August 2001 the Bush administration conducted detailed negotiations with the Taliban to lay this hoped-for pipeline across Afghanistan and Pakistan so as to profit from lucrative sales to oil-hungry Asian countries. In August the negotiations broke down, after a U.S. negotiator threatened military action against the Taliban, saying, accept our offer of a carpet of gold or you will get a carpet of bombs (see Bin Laden: The Forbidden Truth). One month later the rationale for the carpet-bombing was provided by the destruction of the WTC."
Still reaching but it will be intresting to see if the U.S. does build this "Pipe-Line" after this is all over.
"Not only did Bush announce a "War on Terrorism", he even spoke stupidly of a "crusade", invoking memories of the medieval Christian crusades against Islam to recover "the Holy Land", though these days it is more accurate to speak of gaining control of the oil fields, which is another reason (actually, the primary reason) why America has given itself permission to invade whatever countries it chooses to. And it's not just Middle Eastern oil there are huge oil deposits in the Caspian Basin (larger than in Saudia Arabia). In 1998 Unocal testified before the House Subcommittee on Asia and the Pacific that a pipeline across Afghanistan was crucial to transport Caspian Basin oil to the Indian Ocean. Bush and the American oil companies would dearly like to lay such a pipeline across Afghanistan, but, say some, they cannot do so because the Taleban
have been demanding too large a per centage as their cut for allowing the pipeline project to proceed. Hence, the oil monopoly needs to overthrow the Kabul government, install their own government, and proceed with the pipeline project. Sherman H. Skolnick, The Overthrow of the American Republic, Part 2
George Monbiot: America's Pipe Dream
In fact from February to August 2001 the Bush administration conducted detailed negotiations with the Taliban to lay this hoped-for pipeline across Afghanistan and Pakistan so as to profit from lucrative sales to oil-hungry Asian countries. In August the negotiations broke down, after a U.S. negotiator threatened military action against the Taliban, saying, accept our offer of a carpet of gold or you will get a carpet of bombs (see Bin Laden: The Forbidden Truth). One month later the rationale for the carpet-bombing was provided by the destruction of the WTC."
Still reaching but it will be intresting to see if the U.S. does build this "Pipe-Line" after this is all over.
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i didn't waste time reading that whole thing.
When I was italy at the beginning of the summer. A lady was saying how a plane did not hit the pentagon.. it was only a car bomb. She believes this to be true because the plane should have done more damage.
I didn't bother to respond, but thought to myself, "I bet the families of everyone on that plane would be happy to know that the loved ones they thought died were only on an extended vacation"
we have a saying in the south. "You dont wrestle with pigs, you both get dirty and the pigs like it" Which in Lamens terms means, dont waste your time responding and pondering over every stupid and ignorant thing that is said.
kat
When I was italy at the beginning of the summer. A lady was saying how a plane did not hit the pentagon.. it was only a car bomb. She believes this to be true because the plane should have done more damage.
I didn't bother to respond, but thought to myself, "I bet the families of everyone on that plane would be happy to know that the loved ones they thought died were only on an extended vacation"
we have a saying in the south. "You dont wrestle with pigs, you both get dirty and the pigs like it" Which in Lamens terms means, dont waste your time responding and pondering over every stupid and ignorant thing that is said.
kat
7
70
I'd like to respond to some of this...
Some one asked how did they know who did it so quickly after it happened...Quite simply, they knew who was involved before it happened.
Then the obvious question would be, "why weren't they stopped?"
Because, whether you like it or not, everyone in this country, legal or otherwise, has rights. Everyone is protected by those rights. This government cannot just go and take someone into custody who hasn't done anything wrong. Which is why they couldn't just go and nab those guys who flew the planes.
They had to wait to see what was going to happen. Does it suck, yes. But those freedoms that everyone loves so much leave the US open to attack like this.
We could live like people do in Israel, and still have problems.
After 9/11 though that all changed with the new anti-terrorism laws that came out. Now, US law enforcement can come out and do what ever they want if they feel you are a "terrorist". It also gives the President free reign to send the might of the US military into any country he wants based on that countries involvement with terrorist orginizations.
Now the first parts isn't completely true, but the law has changed and it has changed in a way that takes away a little bit more of our freedom.
As far as the pipe line in Afghanistan goes, I heard about that, but I'm not sure if that is totally true. However, considering the main reason behind Desert Storm was supposedly because George Senior wanted to protect his oil interests in Kuwait, the pipeline might be somewhat believeable.
I have also heard that the Towers were not built to with stand that kind of impact. However, I am not an engineer and have no proof to support that. But neither does that article.
One of the few buildings in New York that would be able to handle something like that is supposed to be the Empire State building. Back in WW2 an old B-25 Flying Fortress smacked into it pretty hard. It only caused damage to the offices inside. The plane was demolished.
But, who knows??? The US government does a lot of things that we the average people will never know about. Conspiracy theories are fun to read sometimes, but the true test to any validity is to read numerous ideas about what happened and to find the common threads between the theories. The common threads usually end up being the truth.
Just like the Denver International Airport (the very one in my backyard) is the western hemisphere headquarters for the secret society known as the New World Order (not wrestling). And also, there is supposed to be an 80 square mile secret base built underneath the airport that is run by lizard people. And here I thought it was just a big transportation hub designed to connect the east coast with the west coast when airplanes couldn't make the flight the whole way. Go figure.
Some one asked how did they know who did it so quickly after it happened...Quite simply, they knew who was involved before it happened.
Then the obvious question would be, "why weren't they stopped?"
Because, whether you like it or not, everyone in this country, legal or otherwise, has rights. Everyone is protected by those rights. This government cannot just go and take someone into custody who hasn't done anything wrong. Which is why they couldn't just go and nab those guys who flew the planes.
They had to wait to see what was going to happen. Does it suck, yes. But those freedoms that everyone loves so much leave the US open to attack like this.
We could live like people do in Israel, and still have problems.
After 9/11 though that all changed with the new anti-terrorism laws that came out. Now, US law enforcement can come out and do what ever they want if they feel you are a "terrorist". It also gives the President free reign to send the might of the US military into any country he wants based on that countries involvement with terrorist orginizations.
Now the first parts isn't completely true, but the law has changed and it has changed in a way that takes away a little bit more of our freedom.
As far as the pipe line in Afghanistan goes, I heard about that, but I'm not sure if that is totally true. However, considering the main reason behind Desert Storm was supposedly because George Senior wanted to protect his oil interests in Kuwait, the pipeline might be somewhat believeable.
I have also heard that the Towers were not built to with stand that kind of impact. However, I am not an engineer and have no proof to support that. But neither does that article.
One of the few buildings in New York that would be able to handle something like that is supposed to be the Empire State building. Back in WW2 an old B-25 Flying Fortress smacked into it pretty hard. It only caused damage to the offices inside. The plane was demolished.
But, who knows??? The US government does a lot of things that we the average people will never know about. Conspiracy theories are fun to read sometimes, but the true test to any validity is to read numerous ideas about what happened and to find the common threads between the theories. The common threads usually end up being the truth.
Just like the Denver International Airport (the very one in my backyard) is the western hemisphere headquarters for the secret society known as the New World Order (not wrestling). And also, there is supposed to be an 80 square mile secret base built underneath the airport that is run by lizard people. And here I thought it was just a big transportation hub designed to connect the east coast with the west coast when airplanes couldn't make the flight the whole way. Go figure.
I'm sure tons of people enjoy conspiracy theory but for some reason....and this is me....I think that website is the biggest bunch of bulls*** that I've ever read. Now granted I didn't read the entire thing (I will) because I was getting too upset but to think it was all some big US gov't plan is s***.
I'd love to ask the Italian woman that talked to Katsmp3 about her "car bomb" theory. I would like to ask about the people that watched it crashed. Were they also behind the "big plan?"
About the telephone poles and pentagon wreckage...if the plane hit the building at a nice glideslop with wings level then I'm sure the hole would have been bigger and the poles hit. I'm pretty sure though that the plane didn't come in level since it CRASHED nose down into the Pentagon.
About the wreckage strewn 8 miles away from the Penn crashsite why does this mean that there was an explosion in midair? A plane crashed in the Everglades years back and there was debris scattered for miles. In every major airline crash that has occured over land there has been debris scattered over a large area. I mean has anyone ever been or even stood next to an airliner? I mean stand outside, on the flightline, next to an airliner. They are freakin' huge. And do you know how much fuel they hold? It's not the average 14.5 gal tank of our cars. I mean they measure the fuel quantity in lbs. There is fuel in the wings, in the body, in every available space other than where the passengers and luggage, and avionics go.
About the tower's ability to withstand the crash: To StuttersC (this is just info not to sound like I'm bashing) The B-25 is called the Mitchell and is not that large of an aircraft when compared to the airliners used on 9/11. Also, The Discovery Channel did a documentary on the Twin Towers and interviewed the designers. Now they could be lying and behind the whole thing but they are usually pretty factual. They believe the intense heat from the fire brought down the building. They said they designed it to withstand the impact of a Boeing 707 but they themselves said they couldn't design for the fire, and even designing for the impact was slightly guesstimated. It was a very interesting program and recommend it if it is aired again.
Well I think I may conclude my rambling. I didn't want to get sucked into this whole thing but I guess thats what we have this for....to vent. I probably should've listened to Katsmp3 when she wrote ""You dont wrestle with pigs, you both get dirty and the pigs like it" Which in Lamens terms means, dont waste your time responding and pondering over every stupid and ignorant thing that is said."
I'd love to ask the Italian woman that talked to Katsmp3 about her "car bomb" theory. I would like to ask about the people that watched it crashed. Were they also behind the "big plan?"
About the telephone poles and pentagon wreckage...if the plane hit the building at a nice glideslop with wings level then I'm sure the hole would have been bigger and the poles hit. I'm pretty sure though that the plane didn't come in level since it CRASHED nose down into the Pentagon.
About the wreckage strewn 8 miles away from the Penn crashsite why does this mean that there was an explosion in midair? A plane crashed in the Everglades years back and there was debris scattered for miles. In every major airline crash that has occured over land there has been debris scattered over a large area. I mean has anyone ever been or even stood next to an airliner? I mean stand outside, on the flightline, next to an airliner. They are freakin' huge. And do you know how much fuel they hold? It's not the average 14.5 gal tank of our cars. I mean they measure the fuel quantity in lbs. There is fuel in the wings, in the body, in every available space other than where the passengers and luggage, and avionics go.
About the tower's ability to withstand the crash: To StuttersC (this is just info not to sound like I'm bashing) The B-25 is called the Mitchell and is not that large of an aircraft when compared to the airliners used on 9/11. Also, The Discovery Channel did a documentary on the Twin Towers and interviewed the designers. Now they could be lying and behind the whole thing but they are usually pretty factual. They believe the intense heat from the fire brought down the building. They said they designed it to withstand the impact of a Boeing 707 but they themselves said they couldn't design for the fire, and even designing for the impact was slightly guesstimated. It was a very interesting program and recommend it if it is aired again.
Well I think I may conclude my rambling. I didn't want to get sucked into this whole thing but I guess thats what we have this for....to vent. I probably should've listened to Katsmp3 when she wrote ""You dont wrestle with pigs, you both get dirty and the pigs like it" Which in Lamens terms means, dont waste your time responding and pondering over every stupid and ignorant thing that is said."
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PR5hokie said:
No problem, I'm not up on my names of WW2 aircraft...The point I was trying to make though was that the B-25 was no little plane neither and made out of different materials than new aircraft. Although I did forget about speed differences as well.
I didn't see the Discovery Channel special, I'm not into watching things over and over again, except for good movies and tv shows. I watched it all live the first time. It happened, I need to get ready for the possibility of going somewhere to blow people up for it. Everyone else needs to do what they need to do to get past the event themselves.
I'm not into the whole conspiracy thing, but sometimes they can be funny, re:the DIA conspiracy I mentioned.
