PeteyBoy3K
Member
- :
- '04 Mazda3 5d, Titanium Gray
My impression was always this: Superchargers and turbochargers are like VVT: they can be tuned to either flatten the power band or really make the preferred power band spike... or you can get an more complex and really expensive system to do both. However, since most people like engines that don't cost 50% of the car, everyone makes do with the simplistic systems.
It was always my impression that Supers were always a bit easier to configure but harder to install: Basically you're just putting a fan on the engine and not even getting a restriction on exhaust gasses... but it's harder to shoehorn one into most engine compartments because you're dealing with the fact that you have to get a belt to drive a pulley on a blower on a narrow axis... Thus, most supers I have ever heard of are right on top of the engine like a power steering pump, and there might not be enough room to wedge one into most compact cars. Also, You are putting another thing that provides resistance on your belt. Thus even though you get no boost-response issues, the turbo will always produce more power once it get's going.
Turbo's I always thought were a bit more elegant because you are using exhaust gasses to power the turbine. The resistance doesn't equate to that of a blower-on-a-belt, so you can get more power from turbos. They are also easier to stick on an engine because you're basically just bolting something on in the empty space around the exhast manifold.. It allows for a wider range of positions and orientations since it's not being restricted by needing to be driven by an engine belt: an important consideration in cramped compact engine compartments. Otherwise, they get really hot and the bearing undergoes a lot of stress and needs constant oil... so you're often running a lot more hoses and pipes and maybe a few intercooler lines. Thus they are prone to blow up or worse, blow your engine if you tinker too much.
Otherwise, in both systems you can pretty much designate which part of the power band you want your boost. If you don't want the traditional lags, you get a smaller super/turbo so there is less resistance and/or you use a smaller pulley or configure the wastegate to give more PSI sooner... But then when the engine starts revving higher, the super/turbo won't produce as much boost as a bigger turbo/super would have.
It seems most racers/tuners are hanging out near the redline of the engine anyways.. so they get and configure a turbo/super to give a lot of power in the 4-7000 range and ignore the initial wait while the big turbo spins up or the big supers low-end resistance (or plunge when the optional clutch kicks in)
Once again it's a necessary expense thing.. Most turbos and supers are regulated by simple pressure switches and pulleys respectively. These are uncomplicated and least likely to fail and cause something to pop. They can be dropped onto a variety of different engines without much more tweaking, and you can tinker with the pressure switches and pulleys to a limited extent for the range that suits you. You could set up all sorts of computer controlled actuators to try and make it so there is a boost-curve perfectly that matches your engine curve, but then you're dealing with a lot more testing and R&D to get the computer to match perfectly with the behavior and needs of the engine. It would at that point just be cheaper to buy a car with a v-6 or a v-8.
I think so, bigger also means more boost when it counts... but smaller turbos will be able to give your low end a nice push where bigger turbos would just be bogging it down getting up to speed. There is also different turbine design that responds differently, but the trade off is generally "do I want more boost or do I want better boost response".
Yes, but any turbo designed for really good boost response (spin up quickly, minimize the wait) won't be as punchy when the engine really hits its sweet spot. Otherwise, you can fit in a really bigass turbo because you can pretty much run pipes to whichever part of the engine compartment has the most space. The super you have to find room for the blower AND get the drive belts to it without any twisting/rubbing. But there will still be concerns about whether you want it to be pushing really hard near the redline (jeckyl/hyde) or giving an nice boost to low-end torque
It was always my impression that Supers were always a bit easier to configure but harder to install: Basically you're just putting a fan on the engine and not even getting a restriction on exhaust gasses... but it's harder to shoehorn one into most engine compartments because you're dealing with the fact that you have to get a belt to drive a pulley on a blower on a narrow axis... Thus, most supers I have ever heard of are right on top of the engine like a power steering pump, and there might not be enough room to wedge one into most compact cars. Also, You are putting another thing that provides resistance on your belt. Thus even though you get no boost-response issues, the turbo will always produce more power once it get's going.
Turbo's I always thought were a bit more elegant because you are using exhaust gasses to power the turbine. The resistance doesn't equate to that of a blower-on-a-belt, so you can get more power from turbos. They are also easier to stick on an engine because you're basically just bolting something on in the empty space around the exhast manifold.. It allows for a wider range of positions and orientations since it's not being restricted by needing to be driven by an engine belt: an important consideration in cramped compact engine compartments. Otherwise, they get really hot and the bearing undergoes a lot of stress and needs constant oil... so you're often running a lot more hoses and pipes and maybe a few intercooler lines. Thus they are prone to blow up or worse, blow your engine if you tinker too much.
Otherwise, in both systems you can pretty much designate which part of the power band you want your boost. If you don't want the traditional lags, you get a smaller super/turbo so there is less resistance and/or you use a smaller pulley or configure the wastegate to give more PSI sooner... But then when the engine starts revving higher, the super/turbo won't produce as much boost as a bigger turbo/super would have.
It seems most racers/tuners are hanging out near the redline of the engine anyways.. so they get and configure a turbo/super to give a lot of power in the 4-7000 range and ignore the initial wait while the big turbo spins up or the big supers low-end resistance (or plunge when the optional clutch kicks in)
Once again it's a necessary expense thing.. Most turbos and supers are regulated by simple pressure switches and pulleys respectively. These are uncomplicated and least likely to fail and cause something to pop. They can be dropped onto a variety of different engines without much more tweaking, and you can tinker with the pressure switches and pulleys to a limited extent for the range that suits you. You could set up all sorts of computer controlled actuators to try and make it so there is a boost-curve perfectly that matches your engine curve, but then you're dealing with a lot more testing and R&D to get the computer to match perfectly with the behavior and needs of the engine. It would at that point just be cheaper to buy a car with a v-6 or a v-8.
tgv121281 said:
I think so, bigger also means more boost when it counts... but smaller turbos will be able to give your low end a nice push where bigger turbos would just be bogging it down getting up to speed. There is also different turbine design that responds differently, but the trade off is generally "do I want more boost or do I want better boost response".
tgv121281 said:
Yes, but any turbo designed for really good boost response (spin up quickly, minimize the wait) won't be as punchy when the engine really hits its sweet spot. Otherwise, you can fit in a really bigass turbo because you can pretty much run pipes to whichever part of the engine compartment has the most space. The super you have to find room for the blower AND get the drive belts to it without any twisting/rubbing. But there will still be concerns about whether you want it to be pushing really hard near the redline (jeckyl/hyde) or giving an nice boost to low-end torque
