The massive Boost Thread

[TurfBurn]

Hmm... let me know when you get those back! I'll be curious... as I could maybe consider it if coating the dome and underside and could get away for under 100 ... but we'll see... like I said I'm pretty in the air about it... and with everything else I'm doing and cost.... I'd rather pinch the penny on that particular mod...

 

[TurfBurn]

This is what we did.
The thrust bearing is a half shell.We added a second tanged half shell thrust bearing to the main cap.So we now have a full faced thrust bearing.This will help alot with crank walk.

do you think that stressing that main will become a problem then at that point? Stress fracturing the block around that main. That was where I leaned toward cutting another main... maybe in ADDITION to the full shell bearing just to distribute that force through more surfaces. In theory you'd nearly halve the forces to the main and that would be a pretty massive benefit.

 

[Minus]

thanks for adding information into the community, turfburn

 

[TurfBurn]

thanks for adding information into the community, turfburn

I have a dream... a dream that one day we all will be over 400 whp . But no problem... I like knowing that info is there for everyone whether I do it or someone else does it.. that way we ALL benefit .

 

[Kooldino]

I have a question, has anyone seen any articles where coating pistons in a turboed application would be a bad idea? Ie. flaking...

I read about a year ago on nasioc that a guy had his JE(?) pistons ceramic coated, and they got screwd up in 1000 miles or so, but I forget why.

 

[ddogg777]

Um, thanks for that bit of info, I'll log that away...
Now go find out why!!!

 

[glyph]

I'll just say this: wow. This helps me realize just how much of a noob I am. I already knew, but now I know.

 

[TurfBurn]

Here is that crank walk fix stuff for you guys... at least what I am doing....

Topline kit: TWTO17 from flatlander racing.

The needed files for CNCing it out of your main cap are attached!

Later,

Steve

 

[vindication]

I cant seem to open the pic file. can someone make it into an viewable pic for my please. and while your at it make the writing into a werd file or something. thanks.

 

[RyanJayG]

I'll do it.. gimme a sec

 

[RyanJayG]

http://www.msprotege.com/members/RyanJayG/thrust bearing.zip
save as. please

and i did one better than making a pic.. I made them executable e-drawing files for ya.

 

[vindication]

cool, thanks

 

[duMb KeoLa]

steve is truely the man... hes helped me sooo much throughout my endeavors with this car that i can never repay the debt...

steve... would it be possible for you to take some pics of your engine and where you added the trust bearing to? i just want to put a picture to all what you are talking about. i dont see axles as an added upgrade to your list as i know a lot of people will be snapping the stock ones... also you can add the mazdaspeed lsd and the welding that was done to your car as an extra upgrade...

im not sure if those were the kind of upgrades you were talking about but they came to mind after reading all 5 pages... thanks for all the knowledge!

 

[TurfBurn]

steve is truely the man... hes helped me sooo much throughout my endeavors with this car that i can never repay the debt...

steve... would it be possible for you to take some pics of your engine and where you added the trust bearing to? i just want to put a picture to all what you are talking about. i dont see axles as an added upgrade to your list as i know a lot of people will be snapping the stock ones... also you can add the mazdaspeed lsd and the welding that was done to your car as an extra upgrade...

im not sure if those were the kind of upgrades you were talking about but they came to mind after reading all 5 pages... thanks for all the knowledge!

I'm learning with the rest of us though too!

I will not likely be able to take pics of the motor where the extra thrust bearing will be as the motor will be buttoned up the next time I see it.. if the shop isn't done like they are supposed to be, though, I'll get shots of it... It's simple to explain though... it's cut into the main cap itself on the thrust bearing main. Basically you put in a relief on the cap to hold a special shaped thrust bearing, otherwise the stock thrust washers are only in the main web itself, and there is nothing on the cap.. in all honesty... stay with a 30% or so clutch weight and you'll be fine. As long as you don't get up into the 40 and 50% pressure plates I doubt many people will have problems with that... there will be other bigger issues. I did it, and was looking into it before I knew 100% the causes and what it could or couldn't do overall. So... It's a minor thing and I doubt anyone will notice it really... so I'd skip worrying about it unless you are going absolutely all out on your motor..

As far as the axles... if you are running radials or dropping the clutch all the time/dragging a lot you won't need the upgrade... you won't have enough traction to snap them... the only reason they break is the shock loading.... and if you get them upgraded... then you'll probably start snapping tranny parts.
And welding the mazdaspeed LSD is just an "extra" measure to make sure it doesn't have problems... but it isn't known if it is really necessary or not.. but 150 bucks of insurance is worth it in my opinion!

Later.

Steve

 

[ddogg777]

DK, if you want a pic of the thrust washer, go to my thread under general performance: "Mental Addiction short block."
http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1566994&postcount=4

 

[TurfBurn]

Interesting way to do the relief for the thrust washer. We mapped the washer, and then CNC'ed an exact relief into the cap for it. Leaves as much metal as possible for more support etc as well. But your way looks simpler/cheaper/quicker.

 

[ddogg777]

It is very fast. When I was putting the crank and thrusts together, there was not enough crank endplay (was shooting for 6-7 thousandths). It was a press fit and was causing binding. I drove over to the machine shop, he dropped what he was doing and shaved off another .007" of the cap. It took him five minutes and when I dropped it back in the endplay was perfect. The crank rotated smoothly.

 

[TurfBurn]

My machinist and I went over the thrust bearing addition... we found several issues inherent in the FS block that caused us to decide to leave it off. We actually determined as well that in all actuality it could cause an even more likely failure of the main bearing webs than not having it in there. By getting that face up higher it allows the crank to exert more pressure at an agle relative to the block and increases a lever arm makign it possible to torque those main webs even worse. Also, we found that to do it properly and allow the proper float in the cap the clerance holes for the bolts would have to be opened up and could compromise the cap somewhat. Additionally, the stock cap was not completely straight relative to the mains when fully seated in the registers. Because of this, it would require cutting the face of the cap at an angle to yield a surface with no misalignment. Because of this and all the potential risks of the cap, we left it off my motor and decided it was actually safer to run without the full face thrust washer.

So just what we did and info for discussion really.

Later!

Steve

 

[vindication]

nuff chitchat, more worky worky

 

[ddogg777]

We actually determined as well that in all actuality it could cause an even more likely failure of the main bearing webs than not having it in there.

Hmm, explain how you came to that opinion. We decided that the main support plate could be used more effectively if we evened out the load over the entire bearing face by using the top thrust.

By getting that face up higher it allows the crank to exert more pressure at an agle relative to the block and increases a lever arm makign it possible to torque those main webs even worse.

You might be being overly cautious here, that "lever arm" would correlate with horizontal deflection at the top of the cap, the main support plate helps in keeping the caps from moving. edit: I can see why this would worry you if the top thrust stuck had less clearance than the bottom. For example, mine was binding and would have put all the thrust load on the top washer, that is why I had to get the cap machined some more so that the clearances of the top and bottom were the same.

Also, we found that to do it properly and allow the proper float in the cap the clerance holes for the bolts would have to be opened up and could compromise the cap somewhat.

You lost me here...please explain, what float and why do you want it

Additionally, the stock cap was not completely straight relative to the mains when fully seated in the registers. Because of this, it would require cutting the face of the cap at an angle to yield a surface with no misalignment.

Wow, that sucks, mine has close to .006" clearance all around the thrust face. I guess only time will tell if it was a worthwhile mod. Of course, my full-face Spec3 clutch can't be good on any thrust face in this little engine...