The 2012 H Stock Thread

[pa11cub]

Is adjusting camber and toe something that an average shadetree mechanic can do or is it something that needs to be done by an alignment shop?

 

[Phone]

You can't adjust camber on these cars (yay bad strut based suspensions), but anybody can do it as long as you know your geometry. Alignments are fairly easy, but you need to have a very, very firm understanding of the math before you start adjusting the suspension.

 

[pa11cub]

Does the chassis brace from Corksport count as a rear sway bar, or is the front swaybar the only option as far as suspension tuning goes for H stock cars.

 

[eyeballs]

Chassis brace is not allowed, you can do the front swaybar or the torsion bar.

 

[Phone]

Does the chassis brace from Corksport count as a rear sway bar, or is the front swaybar the only option as far as suspension tuning goes for H stock cars.

Thanks for reading the thread! As I mentioned on the last page, which you clearly read, in Stock class you can change either the front or the rear swaybar.

 

[pa11cub]

I'm sorry, I wasn't clear, what I meant was, is the front swaybar that corksport offers the only swaybar that I can change. See, I am new to this and I didn't know if "torsion Bars" and "chassis braces" counted as far as the front or rear sway bar swap goes. I understand the rules of H stock, but everybody calls there part something different. Thanks for making me feel stupid.

 

[Font Motorsports]

Thanks for making me feel stupid.

@Phone -

I've been trying to not react to your posts but I'm over it. Ever think about being less abrasive? There's really no need to make people feel stupid. You do this constantly. You're messages are almost always less than cordial. Either reply politely or don't reply at all.

I'm just saying.... (dunno)

 

[Phone]

edit: not on topic, sorry

 

[Font Motorsports]

edit: not on topic, sorry

Oh trust me. It's a topic.

 

[Phone]

Well, I don't particularly feel that it's appropriate for you to hijack a thread and use it as a medium for your personal call-out of an individual.

However, I will give you what you want: I'm abrasive. Sorry for being abrasive. I apologize for expecting a level of mutual respect when conversing on this forum. I understand that it's completely unreasonable of me to expect other members to read through threads and possibly use the search function.

 

[pa11cub]

I read this thread, I searched sway bar topics and read everything this forum has on the topic. No one discusses whether a torsion bar or chassis brace is also know as a rear way bar. YOU miss understood me and now you are getting all huffy about it.

 

[Phone]

I mentioned "rear bar" about 10 times in the thread. Sorry that I poked fun at you. The SCCA rulebook is fairly verbose as to what is and isn't allowed at autocross.

 

[Font Motorsports]

Well, I don't particularly feel that it's appropriate for you to hijack a thread and use it as a medium for your personal call-out of an individual.

However, I will give you what you want: I'm abrasive. Sorry for being abrasive. I apologize for expecting a level of mutual respect when conversing on this forum. I understand that it's completely unreasonable of me to expect other members to read through threads and possibly use the search function.

It's not unreasonable to expect others to read through threads and search, but there are other ways of reminding people to do so. Ok, I'm done.

 

[eyeballs]

Let me see if I can help here...

chassis brace - connected to the vehicle chassis directly, and essentially solidifies an area of the chassis

torsion bar - mounted onto the rear torsion beam, will increase roll stiffness directly

anti-sway bar - mounted to the chassis, but connected to endlinks which connect to the control arms to increase roll stiffness.

These are three different parts, not three different names for the same part. I believe even though it's not mentioned (though I could be wrong here), that you may add a torsion bar in stock class because torsion beam suspensions do not utilize anti-sway bars due to differences in suspension geometry.

 

[pa11cub]

Thank you for the clear explanation.

I installed the CS torsion bar today and will be autocrossing on Sunday

 

[Andy Hollis]

Let me see if I can help here...

chassis brace - connected to the vehicle chassis directly, and essentially solidifies an area of the chassis

torsion bar - mounted onto the rear torsion beam, will increase roll stiffness directly

anti-sway bar - mounted to the chassis, but connected to endlinks which connect to the control arms to increase roll stiffness.

These are three different parts, not three different names for the same part. I believe even though it's not mentioned (though I could be wrong here), that you may add a torsion bar in stock class because torsion beam suspensions do not utilize anti-sway bars due to differences in suspension geometry.

I disagree completely with your definitions of the latter two items, especially with respect to the solo rules. But not with your final conclusion on which parts are allowed/not. I think it is important to know why, though.

How an anti-roll works in immaterial to its function. Nothing says it has to have end links that attach to control arms. In fact, many anti-roll bars have the bar attaching to the twist beam and the end links attaching to the frame (e.g A1-chassis VW Rabbit aftermarket). Lots of ways to skin the cat.

A "torsion bar" is simply a type of spring. It holds energy which is input and output via twist. A coil spring holds energy via compression/extension.

A torsion bar can be used as the sole spring mechanism for a vehicle or as part of an anti-roll bar mechanism (or both). In fact, most circle track and high-end road racing anti-roll bars are constructed using splined torsion bars.

And your contention that a torsion bar suspension cannot have a traditional anti-roll bar is also wrong. An example is the 84-87 Honda Civic/CRX, which has a torsion bar front suspension with a separate anti-roll bar which is attached to the frame via bushings and to the single lower control arm with end links. I've also seen them used on a twist beam rear suspension like the 2 has. I may even build one myself for my car.

As for things "not mentioned" being allowed, that is completely incorrect, as well. If it does not say you can do it in the rules, you cannot.

Bottom line is this: with respect to anti-roll bars for Stock category, the allowance itself contains the only restrictions on the method used.

 

[eyeballs]

Thanks for the clarification Andy. I figured I was probably not 100% proper in my explanations, and was just trying to shed some light on the subject in relation to our cars. The 2 is the first car I've owned with a torsion beam setup. So would the mazdaspeed bar in the B-spec kit be legal in HS? From the photo I saw (IIRC) it did not mount to the torsion beam, but I don't think it mounted to the frame either. Very interesting to hear about those older suspension designs....especially with the CRX. Monumental improvement from '87 to '88!

 

[Andy Hollis]

Thanks for the clarification Andy. I figured I was probably not 100% proper in my explanations, and was just trying to shed some light on the subject in relation to our cars. The 2 is the first car I've owned with a torsion beam setup. So would the mazdaspeed bar in the B-spec kit be legal in HS? From the photo I saw (IIRC) it did not mount to the torsion beam, but I don't think it mounted to the frame either. Very interesting to hear about those older suspension designs....especially with the CRX. Monumental improvement from '87 to '88!

VW Rabbits, starting in 1976, were the same as the 2. Strut front, twist beam rear. It's an old design.

Yes, I believe the B-Spec rear bar is legal for STF or HS. It takes awhile to understand how it works, but once you get wrap your head around it, it makes sense.

 

[magnumP5]

Anyone in here still running stock class? I'm thinking about getting into it because my RX-7 project is taking a lot longer than anticipated. H Stock over STF due to the limited mods, which can be easily removed for daily driving. I'll probably start off not competitive dead stock to get a feel for autox and then move onto the usual mods.

 

[tehpeach]

Anyone in here still running stock class? I'm thinking about getting into it because my RX-7 project is taking a lot longer than anticipated. H Stock over STF due to the limited mods, which can be easily removed for daily driving. I'll probably start off not competitive dead stock to get a feel for autox and then move onto the usual mods.

You should see if your club offers a Road Tire FWD class. No matter what you do you will not be competitive in HS until you buy R-Compounds. RTF allows you to use high performance summer tires like the BFG Rival and Toyo R1R.

STF really isn't that bad, and participation is much better (at least in my region). Get tires, coilovers, and swaybars and you'll be regionally competitive.