talked to split second about their afc with NA Tuning!!!!

[808MP5]

i actually am going to run a custom turbo kit. hiboost exhaust manifold, s and j pipe with a td04 turbo (wrx turbo). the turbo is smaller than the one that comes with the hiboost kit (sti turbo). custom fmic set up with msp ecu and type s bov. that plus all the previous upgrades i have on the car.


im going to have a NA sale next week, including a mp3 ecu, so stay tuned.

could I possibly call dibs on the ecu?

 

[StealthWyvern]

bump

 

[cougar10agREDUX]

Hey jamesk, i used your map to get me started tuning on my ES ECU. felt a decent gain. i pulled fuel .1 value in all the columns you modified and noticed a little more gain. i also changed the over pressure to -3.09Hg.

at idle it's showing a pretty solid -21.4Hg. i wanna pull fuel .1 more than i already did, but i don't wanna go anymore than that without my wideband hooked up. got a 3 day weekend this weekend so i'll knock that out.

 

[jamesk]

sounds great! yea i wouldnt pull any more fuel until you got the wideband hooked up. but it sounds like the car is doing good.

 

[cougar10agREDUX]

yeah i am able to spin 2nd pretty good on the shift and chirp third. pulled another .1 today and it pulls pretty good. i'm happy

 

[808MP5]

good to here it's working... please share your map when you got it all settled in

 

[cougar10agREDUX]

i definately will.

it woulda have been easier to be able to datalog the WB02, but it turns out i recieved the FTC1 without WB02 datalogging.... such is life.

 

[cougar10agREDUX]

so after some headaches with the WB02. when they say ground the heater ground to the same source but not the same lug as the LC-1 ground they really mean it. so don't be lazy like me and ground them together otherwise once you plugg the sensor in the LC-1 won't work at all.

anyway, just driving around my AFR's were jumping all over pretty much, 80% throttle seems to have a more soid 12-13afr than wot. lol.

what scared me was that between 2-2.6k rpms my afrs went from 17, 16, 15, 14. so i gotta fix that. and from about 5.4- 6.5 the afrs stay around 11.8

 

[808MP5]

mine does the same thing except i get lean spikes once in a while.. and with about 30% throttle up inclines i run way to rich constant 11s and as the incline decreases my afr go back to normal 13-15

 

[jamesk]

mine did that when i stopped using my IAT sensor. it does it once in a while with my turbo set up too

 

[magnumP5]

What do you mean by you "stopped using" your IAT sensor? You know it actually serves a purpose right?

 

[jamesk]

not using it in the intake piping and instead hanging in my engine bay.

if you have make a tune not relying on it, its fine.

 

[magnumP5]

In open loop yeah, but isn't it still being used by the ECU at all other times? I know full standalone tunes rely heavily on the IAT sensor but I'm still investigating it's sensitivity with the stock ECU. I have a thread up asking whether we could use aftermarket/other IAT sensors with the stock ECU. I want to use a threaded IAT so I can have it in front of my MAF on the pressure side like the system was intended to run. I'd like to see if it makes a different or not.

 

[niky]

Yours got it with the IAT removed? We've noticed a reaaaaaally weird lean spike on the dyno on my car... then recreated it with an untuned car.

What happens is at 2k rpm, at part-throttle (maybe 1/4 to 2/3), the car would go silly lean for some odd reason... hold it there on the dyno, and it would go so lean that it would bog... then finally the ignition would advance some and the fuel mapping would bump back up.

These ECUs are freaking weird. Don't know if this is what's happening to you US OBDII guys, but a trip to the dyno with a Scangauge tool should show whether this is what's happening to you. We think it's some strange closed-loop imperfection inherent to the cars.

Which is why we just unplug the O2 sensors and leave it be.

 

[jamesk]

In open loop yeah, but isn't it still being used by the ECU at all other times? I know full standalone tunes rely heavily on the IAT sensor but I'm still investigating it's sensitivity with the stock ECU. I have a thread up asking whether we could use aftermarket/other IAT sensors with the stock ECU. I want to use a threaded IAT so I can have it in front of my MAF on the pressure side like the system was intended to run. I'd like to see if it makes a different or not.

no it really doesnt make a difference unless it is seeing really odd temperatures.

me and scott from splitsecond talked about this pacifcally about the mazda protege. when the IAT sees colder temperatures, it tells the car to get richer and vise versa. if you put it at a good spot in the engine bay, i wouldnt think you would see a difference. and if there was a difference, it only affects closed loop so its no big deal.

yes standalones rely on their own IAT, but not on the stock one. there are many different ways to tune for fuel. some standalones rely only on TPS percentages, other systems rely on map sensors, maf sensors, o2 sensors, etc. etc. a IAT sensor can either play a big role or a small role, but it matters for each pacfic system.

i guess i could of reworded my statement before. i am using the IAT sensor, but it is not placed in the intake routing. it is placed at a cold spot in the engine bay. the IAT sensor would see colder air in the intake system since the air is flowing, but not much of a difference to affect anything in closed loop.

 

[jamesk]

Yours got it with the IAT removed? We've noticed a reaaaaaally weird lean spike on the dyno on my car... then recreated it with an untuned car.

What happens is at 2k rpm, at part-throttle (maybe 1/4 to 2/3), the car would go silly lean for some odd reason... hold it there on the dyno, and it would go so lean that it would bog... then finally the ignition would advance some and the fuel mapping would bump back up.

These ECUs are freaking weird. Don't know if this is what's happening to you US OBDII guys, but a trip to the dyno with a Scangauge tool should show whether this is what's happening to you. We think it's some strange closed-loop imperfection inherent to the cars.

Which is why we just unplug the O2 sensors and leave it be.

and niky, i agree with you. proteges do run lean for a second around 2-2.5k like you say. now that i think about it, i do not think it is the IAT sensor. i did a follow up on this problem because it was happening to me, but i remembered that i figured out a solution.

the o2 sensors on these cars are pretty sensitive. after 20,000 miles they start to change with readings. the main reason because of this is because the carbon build up on the o2 sensor. there is 2 options to fix this. the first and cheapest option is to spray brake cleaner on the sensor to clean off the carbon. another solution is to buy a new sensor.

this is why my car doesnt do this anymore. The main rule about tuning a car is to make sure the sensors are in surperb condition. if they are not, then your waisting your time. techncially, even though people wait to change their primary o2 sensor until they see a check engine light, it really should be changed around 40,000 miles to get consitant readings. that goes for every car.

you disconnecting the o2 sensor and tuning your way around it is not a bad idea at all. if it can be done successfully, by all means do it.

 

[niky]

We're actually thinking this could be due to a mis-written line of code in the closed-loop programming on the box... one car that we tested this on had only 39,000 kms on it (about 25,000 miles).

Currently retuning... have lots of work left to do on the car... will probably finally install the cam-gear I had made on the intake side, since we got the effect we want by turning the exhaust side. Will need to update the board on that situation when I'm done.

 

[ND4MSP]

Sorry to but in with a newb question, but how would the car run with o2 sensors disconnected? And are you guys talking about tuning with full standalones or piggybacks in these situations? thx

 

[niky]

Yup.

It'll run. You'll have a CEL, but it'll run. For us Asian/Australian guys, no CELs, no problems...

 

[cougar10agREDUX]

so i havn't ****** around tuning yet, but the stock ECU is really pissing me off. it's retarded, it'll randomly go really rich, or really lean in some places.

one thing i am going to do is buy a brand new front HO2 sensor since i have 60k on mine.

s**** retarded, i gotta get this sorted out