actually it's the factory tune that is not right, causing engine failure, to meet new emissions laws...which has seemed to carry over to the 08 sti and 09 wrx.
Subaru Impreza WRX STI: A-Line Announced
- Thread starter mikeyb
- Start date
actually it's the factory tune that is not right, causing engine failure, to meet new emissions laws...which has seemed to carry over to the 08 sti and 09 wrx.
mountjonas
Member
- :
- 2013 VRM MS3
no brembos?
happy and angry
Member
Evo X MR, GT-R... you were saying?
i think he was saying that neither of those have an automatic
Those both have dual clutch manuals...faster shifts and it puts the power down much better than an auto...
happy and angry
Member
Really, you're sure they aren't dual clutch automatic transmissions with manual options? I could have sworn they had a "Drive" option that handled the shifting for you. I could have sworn that many a magazine and car show had covered these features extensively, even commenting in some cases that the MR was faster around the track when the car was left to shift on its own, almost automatically, if you will. I had even heard (but don't quote me on this) that the GT-R's transmission is often called a semi-automatic.
Guess I was wrong, huh.
Guess I was wrong, huh.
a car shifting on its own does not make it have an automatic transmission. the GTR i know has an automatic shifting mode. however it is not an automatic transmission. the internal workings of a manual and automatic transmission are very different, the most obvious difference being the torque converter on an automatic. basically if a car has a torque converter it's an automatic. if it has a clutch, regardless of who is controlling that clutch, it's a manual.
if this STI has an automatic transmission it has a torque converter and is thus less efficient and likely less fun than a manual car.
if this STI has an automatic transmission it has a torque converter and is thus less efficient and likely less fun than a manual car.
happy and angry
Member
The presence or absence of a torque converter is not what defines an automatic transmission.
The TC-SST in the MR is an automatic, despite the absence of a torque converter. The electronics shift for you, automatically, and you do not manage the clutch plate on your own. You can take more control and send signals to the electronics that say "I want to shift now" that may or may not be ignored, based on various parameters (IE: I am at 5500 RPM in 2nd gear, I'D LIKE TO DOWN SHIFT, and strangely the electronics ignore you). You do not manually move a gear selector, which in turn manually selects a gear view cable or shaft linkages to the transmission. You are entirely removed from the shifting process.
The GT-R works the same way, more or less. It is also an automatic.
The DSG in the VW Golf works very similarly. It is also an automatic.
These are all semi-automatics, but by no means manual. They remain automatics.
As described the transmission of this STI sounds like it will work very similarly. It will also be an automatic. And yet, in the first three cars no one goes "OH MY GOD SLUSHBOX IT'S CRAP YOU FAIL NISSAN/MITSUBISHI/VOLKSWAGON" but in the case of the STI it is assumed that it will somehow be different and also a failure because, oh my god it's an automatic. There is a bizarre and illogical disconnect in your head if you think first that automatics are crappy by default but also that cars you think are sort of neat and cool and still perform awesomely and with the same ability for the driver to select gears do not count as automatics, just because.
The TC-SST in the MR is an automatic, despite the absence of a torque converter. The electronics shift for you, automatically, and you do not manage the clutch plate on your own. You can take more control and send signals to the electronics that say "I want to shift now" that may or may not be ignored, based on various parameters (IE: I am at 5500 RPM in 2nd gear, I'D LIKE TO DOWN SHIFT, and strangely the electronics ignore you). You do not manually move a gear selector, which in turn manually selects a gear view cable or shaft linkages to the transmission. You are entirely removed from the shifting process.
The GT-R works the same way, more or less. It is also an automatic.
The DSG in the VW Golf works very similarly. It is also an automatic.
These are all semi-automatics, but by no means manual. They remain automatics.
As described the transmission of this STI sounds like it will work very similarly. It will also be an automatic. And yet, in the first three cars no one goes "OH MY GOD SLUSHBOX IT'S CRAP YOU FAIL NISSAN/MITSUBISHI/VOLKSWAGON" but in the case of the STI it is assumed that it will somehow be different and also a failure because, oh my god it's an automatic. There is a bizarre and illogical disconnect in your head if you think first that automatics are crappy by default but also that cars you think are sort of neat and cool and still perform awesomely and with the same ability for the driver to select gears do not count as automatics, just because.
you're basically just arguing semantics. if you want to call sequential manual gearboxes "automatic transmissions" go for it. most enthusiasts know that a sequential manual box has the guts of a manual but automatic gear changing so they liken it more to the manual. that is much different than the automatic transmissions that allow gear selecting that companies like mazda put in their cars which everyone will still consider an automatic because its guts come from an automatic transmission.
the transmission in this subaru is not a sequential manual/semi-automatic. it is an automatic transmission that allows users to shift if they choose. SPORTSHIFT is found in many other subaru models.
the transmission in this subaru is not a sequential manual/semi-automatic. it is an automatic transmission that allows users to shift if they choose. SPORTSHIFT is found in many other subaru models.
people make the distinction between an SMG gearbox and an automatic that allows you to shift because of that torque converter. while torque converters have come a long way over the years they are still less efficient and offer a somewhat disconnected feeling to the driver (no engine braking most notably).
to me an SMG gearbox is not an automatic transmission. it is an automatically controlled manual transmission. something like SPORTSHIFT is an automatic transmission because it is an automatic transmission that had the feature added to allow user shifting
to me an SMG gearbox is not an automatic transmission. it is an automatically controlled manual transmission. something like SPORTSHIFT is an automatic transmission because it is an automatic transmission that had the feature added to allow user shifting
happy and angry
Member
I'm not arguing semantics at all, I am arguing that "It's an automatic, EPIC FAIL" is a retarded assessment of a vehicle given the wealth of very impressive, high-performing twin-clutch semi-automatic transmissions available on the market. Automatic no longer automatically means "bad."
And I'm not the one calling them semi-automatic transmissions, the manufacturers and engineers that design them are.
And I'm not the one calling them semi-automatic transmissions, the manufacturers and engineers that design them are.
I see the manual elitists are out in full force again. 
Car has automatic = car fails!!!!
Look, I would never buy a 40K Impreza regardless but I don't consider myself anymore hardcore for knowing how to drive a stick.
I wish that the MS3 came with an auto trans or paddle shifts because apart from the fact that my wife does not drive a manual (which kinda stops me from getting one since we swap cars), there are times that I don't feel like driving stick.
While the stick shift will always provide the purest connection between man and machine, all this auto-hating really strikes me as silly.
Driving an auto is not lazy, it's a preference.
Driving a stick shift does not make anyone some sort of driving god, it makes them at most an enthusiast, at least someone who learned young.
sorry for the rant.
ps: I'm just frustrated because I drive a slow auto P5 (even though I learned to drive on a stickshift)
Car has automatic = car fails!!!!
Look, I would never buy a 40K Impreza regardless but I don't consider myself anymore hardcore for knowing how to drive a stick.
I wish that the MS3 came with an auto trans or paddle shifts because apart from the fact that my wife does not drive a manual (which kinda stops me from getting one since we swap cars), there are times that I don't feel like driving stick.
While the stick shift will always provide the purest connection between man and machine, all this auto-hating really strikes me as silly.
Driving an auto is not lazy, it's a preference.
Driving a stick shift does not make anyone some sort of driving god, it makes them at most an enthusiast, at least someone who learned young.
sorry for the rant.
ps: I'm just frustrated because I drive a slow auto P5 (even though I learned to drive on a stickshift)
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happy and angry
Member
You're telling me that someone whose thought process was
is aware of the technical differences between a twin-clutch semi-automatic and a sequential automatic with a torque converter? Let's just say that I remain skeptical of this.
- :
- 2008 Mazda5 5MT Sport w/ Popular Package
Dunno, but you are forgiven for that comment (angel)
Difference between SMG and Sport Autos
A sequential manual transmission (or sequential manual gearbox) is a type of manual transmission used on motorcycles and high-performance cars or auto racing, where gears are selected in order, and direct access to specific gears is not possible.
With traditional manual transmissions, the driver can move from any gear, to any gear, by moving the shifter to the appropriate position. This type of transmission is often referred to as a H-pattern because of the path that the shift lever takes as it selects the various gears. A clutch must be disengaged before the new gear is selected, to disengage the running engine from the transmission, thus stopping all torque transfer. In auto racing, this process is slow and prone to human error; hence the development of the sequential transmission. A true sequential transmission will very often use dog clutch engagement rather than the more usual syncromesh as fitted to a normal H-pattern road car gearbox. Engagement using dogs only requires a very brief interruption of engine torque to complete a shift into any adjacent gear. This allows shifting between gears without the use of the clutch. The clutch would normally be used only for standing starts.
Sportronic or Tiptronic
Tiptronic transmission can operate in the same manner as a conventional type of automatic transmission, but the second and sometimes third mode also allows the driver an additional method of manually overriding the automatic shift changes, by moving the shift lever into a second shift gate, equipped with two spring-loaded positions: "upshift" and "downshift". Once the lever is in this gate, the driver takes over most of the gear shifting decisions, which would ordinarily be performed by the transmission's computer, permitting, for example, the delaying of an upshift for increased acceleration, to increase the effect of the engine braking, to prevent shifts in curves, to shift down before passing, or to shift early in economic acceleration. On some models, the upshift and downshift operations can also be commanded by push-buttons or "paddle shifters" installed on the steering wheel, with an optional display in the instrument panel indicating the current gear selection. And since adding Tiptronic to a (semi-)automatic transmission merely means to plug a new shift lever into the computer and update the software, it is light and cheap.
Though Tiptronic transmissions allow the driver a certain measure of discrete control, the Tiptronic design is implemented using a torque converter like other automatic transmissions. A true Tiptronic transmission is not a computer controlled manual transmission (with a conventional clutch), or semi-automatic transmission. Most Tiptronic implementations still make some shifts automatically, primarily to protect the engine and transmission. For example, as used by licensee Audi, their five-speed Tiptronic will automatically make the upshifts from 1 to 2 when moving off from a stop, even when in manual mode; the transmission then waits for the user's upshift command before proceeding from 2 to 3, 3 to 4 and 4 to 5, although the transmission will still upshift if the redline is approached. On deceleration, the transmission will make all downshifts automatically when close to the tick-over or idle speed, to avoid running the engine at too-low an RPM, although the user can accelerate any downshift (that would not violate the redline), thus allowing improved engine braking, or preparation for intended acceleration. There are some exceptions to this; the system used in the Aston Martin DB9 is designed to hold the gear at the engine's redline, though it will still downshift automatically.
Most luxury vehicles with a Tiptronic transmission have two fully-automatic modes: the primary mode, identified as "Drive", "Comfort" or similar; and another, usually called "Sport," which delays upshifts for a sportier driving at the expense of fuel, wear, comfort, and noise. Furthermore, because modern Tiptronic-type transmissions now utilise electronics, incorporating an electronic control unit (ECU), sometimes specifically referred to as the transmission control unit, the ECUs are able to use "fuzzy logic", which means that the operation of the transmission is said to be "adaptive", whereby it will "learn" how the user drives the car, and will tailor the automatic shift points accordingly. This adapts to the demands being placed upon the car by the driver. In this way, shift quality has been improved due to better electronic controls.
Some makes such as Aston Martin, Audi, BMW, Smart, Nissan , Subaru, and Volkswagen offer paddle shifters behind the steering wheel for controlling their similar transmissions.
A sequential manual transmission (or sequential manual gearbox) is a type of manual transmission used on motorcycles and high-performance cars or auto racing, where gears are selected in order, and direct access to specific gears is not possible.
With traditional manual transmissions, the driver can move from any gear, to any gear, by moving the shifter to the appropriate position. This type of transmission is often referred to as a H-pattern because of the path that the shift lever takes as it selects the various gears. A clutch must be disengaged before the new gear is selected, to disengage the running engine from the transmission, thus stopping all torque transfer. In auto racing, this process is slow and prone to human error; hence the development of the sequential transmission. A true sequential transmission will very often use dog clutch engagement rather than the more usual syncromesh as fitted to a normal H-pattern road car gearbox. Engagement using dogs only requires a very brief interruption of engine torque to complete a shift into any adjacent gear. This allows shifting between gears without the use of the clutch. The clutch would normally be used only for standing starts.
Sportronic or Tiptronic
Tiptronic transmission can operate in the same manner as a conventional type of automatic transmission, but the second and sometimes third mode also allows the driver an additional method of manually overriding the automatic shift changes, by moving the shift lever into a second shift gate, equipped with two spring-loaded positions: "upshift" and "downshift". Once the lever is in this gate, the driver takes over most of the gear shifting decisions, which would ordinarily be performed by the transmission's computer, permitting, for example, the delaying of an upshift for increased acceleration, to increase the effect of the engine braking, to prevent shifts in curves, to shift down before passing, or to shift early in economic acceleration. On some models, the upshift and downshift operations can also be commanded by push-buttons or "paddle shifters" installed on the steering wheel, with an optional display in the instrument panel indicating the current gear selection. And since adding Tiptronic to a (semi-)automatic transmission merely means to plug a new shift lever into the computer and update the software, it is light and cheap.
Though Tiptronic transmissions allow the driver a certain measure of discrete control, the Tiptronic design is implemented using a torque converter like other automatic transmissions. A true Tiptronic transmission is not a computer controlled manual transmission (with a conventional clutch), or semi-automatic transmission. Most Tiptronic implementations still make some shifts automatically, primarily to protect the engine and transmission. For example, as used by licensee Audi, their five-speed Tiptronic will automatically make the upshifts from 1 to 2 when moving off from a stop, even when in manual mode; the transmission then waits for the user's upshift command before proceeding from 2 to 3, 3 to 4 and 4 to 5, although the transmission will still upshift if the redline is approached. On deceleration, the transmission will make all downshifts automatically when close to the tick-over or idle speed, to avoid running the engine at too-low an RPM, although the user can accelerate any downshift (that would not violate the redline), thus allowing improved engine braking, or preparation for intended acceleration. There are some exceptions to this; the system used in the Aston Martin DB9 is designed to hold the gear at the engine's redline, though it will still downshift automatically.
Most luxury vehicles with a Tiptronic transmission have two fully-automatic modes: the primary mode, identified as "Drive", "Comfort" or similar; and another, usually called "Sport," which delays upshifts for a sportier driving at the expense of fuel, wear, comfort, and noise. Furthermore, because modern Tiptronic-type transmissions now utilise electronics, incorporating an electronic control unit (ECU), sometimes specifically referred to as the transmission control unit, the ECUs are able to use "fuzzy logic", which means that the operation of the transmission is said to be "adaptive", whereby it will "learn" how the user drives the car, and will tailor the automatic shift points accordingly. This adapts to the demands being placed upon the car by the driver. In this way, shift quality has been improved due to better electronic controls.
Some makes such as Aston Martin, Audi, BMW, Smart, Nissan , Subaru, and Volkswagen offer paddle shifters behind the steering wheel for controlling their similar transmissions.
