Stage 1 AC upgrade (2024 CX-5)

[AL Cx5]

I put split foam insulation in the cold, LOW presure side AC line and wrapped it with line set tape.

Decreases time to cool the car, run the fan on lower settings, AC compressor is off more saving fuel and wear and tear on the compressor.

I do this on all of our vehicles and can FEEL the difference.

I don't know why all vehicles LOW side is not insulated...

I just performed a Stage II AC mod on my truck, changed out the r134a for Enviro Safe refrigerant. Lowered both high and low side pressure of the compressor by 40%. Drove around yesterday in 98f heat on low and next to low fan setting. Compressor is off even more. I might do the Mazda latter this summer. I want to get more run time on the test mule.

 

[ColtX-5]

The high pressure side is the liquid line and is hot after being compressed back to a liquid.

 

[AL Cx5]

The high pressure side is the liquid line and is hot after being compressed back to a liquid.

Thanks, I got confused....

Corrected....

 

[wlong01]

Why don't the manufacturers do this? Sounds like a no-brainer.

 

[cadcamjim]

I think it's great what you did here and now I want to do the same "Stage 1" mod to my 2021 CX-5.
I thought the 2024 CX-5's were the first year that Mazda finally switched to a variable displacement compressor. If that's the case, the compressor presumably does not cycle and the clutch stays engaged anytime that a/c is called for. Either way, what you did should reduce the actual displacement that the system is calling for and still provide you with less wear & tear and less horsepower being consumed by the compressor. Please keep up updated on any future mods.

 

[ColtX-5]

Why don't the manufacturers do this? Sounds like a no-brainer.

Go look at the insulation on your home compressor. Mine is pretty gnarly. I don't think it will hold up well in an engine compartment and OEMs don't want to increase repair cost/trouble. But it can't hurt. I did it to my exposed water heater lines at home.

 

[AL Cx5]

Go look at the insulation on your home compressor. Mine is pretty gnarly. I don't think it will hold up well in an engine compartment and OEMs don't want to increase repair cost/trouble. But it can't hurt. I did it to my exposed water heater lines at home.

Good insulation on your home line set goes right to the bottom line. If it's gnarly, it maybe costing ya..

I did my 09 Accord 5+ years ago. The split foam had zip ties and foil tape at the joints. It still looked good when I sold the car. My 06 2500 Ram has had split foam without tape longer than 5 years. It's going strong. I taped the Ram's line yesterday to seal up the split and joints.

My home AC has good quality foam insulation on the line set. They DIDN'T put UV tape on the 18" exposed to the elements. I'm going to replace this with split foam and tape this week. 95F days. My AC system needs all the help it can get. I cleaned the condenser coil right before this heat set it.

Today was the first day I drove the CX 5 in this heat since taping the split foam. After letting it sit in the sun while grocery, the air came on colder MUCH quicker than without the tape.

I split foamed the AC lines the first month I owned the Mazda. My wife noted our new car AC took much longer to cool down than our 15 year old Accord. Problem solved in about 30 minutes....

 

[AL Cx5]

I think it's great what you did here and now I want to do the same "Stage 1" mod to my 2021 CX-5.
I thought the 2024 CX-5's were the first year that Mazda finally switched to a variable displacement compressor. If that's the case, the compressor presumably does not cycle and the clutch stays engaged anytime that a/c is called for. Either way, what you did should reduce the actual displacement that the system is calling for and still provide you with less wear & tear and less horsepower being consumed by the compressor. Please keep up updated on any future mods.

Stage II: Change out 134a refrigerant

So far, I'm LOVING the Enviro Safe refrigerant in my 06 Ram as my test mule. It doesn't run any colder, between 42 and 43F because of the temp switch. It does cool down MUCH MUCH quicker and run colder on the high settings. This is because this refrig is "LIKE" r12 but not as harmful. It's 25% cooler than 134a. This is a black truck in the ALABAMA sun. It took forever to cool down before switching to Enviro Safe.

I wish I had logged engine load vs time before and after changing out the 134a. 40% LOWER compressor pressure saves wear and tear and energy. 25% more cooling means the compressor is engage less time, saving energy and wear and tear on the compressor and clutch. I will get this data when we switch the Mazda over.

I've have an independent shop that will recover the 134a. I bought a small vacuum pump and AC manifold gauges. About $125 all in. I LIKE being able to check and charge my AC system and use the refrigerant of my choice. I replace the condenser in my truck, $80 for the part and $15 for refrigerant. Took a couple hours. While I was in it, I added a condenser guard. I'm sure this one repair more than paid for the tools.



Down side, this gas is flammable. AND so was R12 but we never thought twice about using it our cars/home AC and refrigerators....

Yes, I'm the nerd driving around with a digital thermomotor in the AC duct and logging engine loads.

 

[N7turbo]

Not an HVAC expert, but I read this post today, quoting here:

Do not insulate the A/C lines!
Especially the line from the evaporator (Dash) to the compressor inlet.
There's a reason why it's uninsulated.

The compressor compresses the vapor entering it from the evaporator core in the dash and discharges a high temperature/pressure liquid. The liquid loses heat in the condenser in front of the radiator. The refrigerant will pass through an expansion valve and into the evaporator. Pressure and temperature are lowered across the expansion valve and enters the evaporator in the dash which is what provides your cold A/C. Heat is absorbed by the refrigerant in the evaporator until it's fully vapor (if the system is properly working). At this point the compressor does it's thing again to compress the vapor refrigerant to start the cycle again.

Insulating the line between the evap and the compressor will NOT make things more efficient. If the suction temperature is lowered because of insulation, the discharge temperature will also be lowered. After the evap you WANT the refrigerant to lost heat to ambient so that what enters the compressor is fully vaporized. Liquid refrigerant entering the suction side of the compressor can damage the compressor. If the system is over charged or not cycling properly the evaporator can freeze up and the refrigerant can not absorb heat to vaporize the liquid sending liquid into the compressor suction and damaging it. The Compressor is made to compress gas only!

And this one:

Should I insulate air conditioner coolant pipes?
If you’re talking about refrigerant pipes, as in an air conditioning system, then the answer is it depends.
The suction line (the line that feels cold to the touch) is often insulated for two reasons:

1. To prevent condensation, as water condensing and dripping from the line could damage other things around it (such as wood or drywall in a building.)
2. To marginally increase system performance/efficiency. Insulated pipes will pick up less heat from outside the conditioned space so the system load will decrease.

And the reason against insulating:

You may want to pick up more heat in the suction line. This is to ensure all the refrigerant flowing through it has evaporated into gas before it reaches the compressor. Liquid is bad for compressors. Compressors are only meant to pump gas.

So, again the answer is it depends. It depends on the particulars of each system.

 

[AL Cx5]

Not an HVAC expert, but I read this post today, quoting here:



And this one:

I've done this to all my rides, friends and family.

All confirm this cools down the car quicker.

At 200 degree under the hood temp with air moving across the tubing increases temp of the liquid. Temp increase after the condenser hurts efficiency.

The funny part, my wife's 2 complaints about the new CX 5, squeaky brakes and longer AC cool down time. Brakes took longer to fix...

I'm not twisting your arm to do it, not selling anything. Take it or leave it.

I'm COOL

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYhWby7mwZo

 

[AL Cx5]

I have a roll of foil tape laying around. So I taped the AC line yesterday. We will be putting the same insulation on a 2021 CX5 later this week. We will see if his wife can tell the difference. She has been complaining about the AC not cooling enough. While we have it, I'll put my gauges on it and check pressure. Also replace the cabin air filter. If she wants ice cold AC we will change out the refrigerant...

I have not tested how fast the ac cools the Mazda. Its a garage queen. The black Ram test went like this: 99 f, sunny 2:00, sat in sun all day closed up. Digital thermometer in ac duct read 105f. 2 blocks later 65f, 2 more blocks 55f. Very soon after 45f. I settled in at 42 to 43f. It has Stage 1 with foil tape and Stage 2 refrigerant. Just last year it would have taken 30 min to cool down driving at 65 mph.

Here is the foil wrapped AC line.

 

[CycleChris]

This is interesting. I found the cabin filter to be fairly restrictive. The less restrictive K&N cabin filter allows more air thru the system, its actually noticeable. I would never put one in the engine airbox, because if it breathes better, it filters less. Many videos on YT showing it passing particles thru and no HP benefit but in a cabin filter application it might be fine.

 

[AL Cx5]

This is interesting. I found the cabin filter to be fairly restrictive. The less restrictive K&N cabin filter allows more air thru the system, its actually noticeable. I would never put one in the engine airbox, because if it breathes better, it filters less. Many videos on YT showing it passing particles thru and no HP benefit but in a cabin filter application it might be fine.

That's good info! I'm working on a friends 2021 CX 5 AC tomorrow. First item will be to replace the cabin air filter. I'll look at the K&N filter for our car.

X2 on K&N and other CAI filters. I have an industrial air ventilation background. When I apply what works in the industrial world to these after market filters, they don't measure up.

Another pet peeve of mine, the CAI guys post HP gains at WOT. That's fine if one is racing but not meaningful for daily drivers. As you said, folks are not seeing gains in their cars, daily drivers.

A group of engineer types have spent years with our approximately 20 year old Gen 3 Dodge Cummins Turbo Diesel engine intakes. We have tried aftermarket and our own ideas to improve daily driver fuel efficacy. The OEM air box and turbo inlet pipe WIN with only one exception. We have modified the OEM air box to allow more air flow through the OEM style air filter. These filter boxes have a "filter minder" device that shows when the filter is getting dirty. Under heavy towing, above 10,000 pounds, the filter minder will show a new filter is 50% dirty. This because the Dodge undersized the inlet to the box. When towing the engine might be 80% loaded at plus 20 psi boost for some time. Under heavy loads I've seen 40 PSI. We have built a cold air inlet in the bottom of the box. It has a damper that opens when the engine is under load, almost doubling the inlet area. The "filter minder" doesn't budge.

A similar device might work on our CX 5 as well. Particularly those with the turbo option. I'll install a filter minder on our air box and see if the air box is restricted. It would be nice to have a Filter Minder on the CX 5...

Side note: my logs of our Turbo engine shows it operates at low boost 99% of the time. Mazda lets it build boost for a very short period of time, seconds, and then drops the boost. On my tuned car, I have seen up to 14 PSI boost for just a moment in the mid RPM range then drop it. This gives the car a nice bump in power, right were a daily driver needs it. It' somewhat frustrating to see it drop back BUT this is NOT a race car.

At 4000 RPM at .1 bar our engines draw about 165 CFM. About like a NA engine.
At 4000 RPM at .9 bar our engines draw about 285 CFM or +40% more air.

I just ordered a "filter minder". Maybe someone else has looked at this and posted. I have not searched. No matter, I'd like to have this gauge on the air filter box....

https://www.amazon.com/dp/ (commissions earned)

 

[CycleChris]

I found out that most oem airboxes are oversized for the engines needs. So unless the car has a retune on the ecm, It just doesn’t make a difference if you decrease the restriction. I cringe at guys running those air intakes with a k&n as the filter. Over time, the dirt getting into the combustion chamber, wearing rings and other damage to valve seats etc makes it a no go for me. I did see corksports filter is a dual filter, one outside and one inside I believe. Thats a lot better than most aftermarket short air intakes filters. Sure would like to see a particulate test on it. They are great looking.

 

[N7turbo]

I found out that most oem airboxes are oversized for the engines needs. So unless the car has a retune on the ecm, It just doesn’t make a difference if you decrease the restriction. I cringe at guys running those air intakes with a k&n as the filter. Over time, the dirt getting into the combustion chamber, wearing rings and other damage to valve seats etc makes it a no go for me. I did see corksports filter is a dual filter, one outside and one inside I believe. Thats a lot better than most aftermarket short air intakes filters. Sure would like to see a particulate test on it. They are great looking.

I agree and would run an AEM DryFlow and not a K&N. However, I've opted to not go the short ram route for two reasons. 1) several people are having whistling noises with them and 2) it seems the airflow could use some optimization. We have one measurement showing better air flow with the box and snorkel.

 

[AL Cx5]

I'll install the air filter service guage next week and see if it indicates the air box inlet is restrictive.

I'll share the results.

I like the way Mazda gets air form outside the engine bay and avoids water. The air filter box has extra area to slow down the air and make it turn 90 dregress to drop our heavy particles.

I wish there were fewer turns after the air leaves the box. I'll calculate the air velocity at several engine load points through the tip. Turbos produce a wider air load range than NA engines. It's more complex...

I found out that most oem airboxes are oversized for the engines needs. So unless the car has a retune on the ecm, It just doesn’t make a difference if you decrease the restriction. I cringe at guys running those air intakes with a k&n as the filter. Over time, the dirt getting into the combustion chamber, wearing rings and other damage to valve seats etc makes it a no go for me. I did see corksports filter is a dual filter, one outside and one inside I believe. Thats a lot better than most aftermarket short air intakes filters. Sure would like to see a particulate test on it. They are great looking.

X2 on the aftermarket filters reduce engine life.

I tested aftermarket filters on other cars. 0 to 60 mph using a phone app is good enough to see of it makes measurable HP at WOT. Keeping mileage logs over several months was my method of measuring FE hai s at partial throttle.

I didn't get ANY better FE on my tests. WOT was marginal, maybe 10 HP. I did notice a slight dust coating on the tip after the air filter! I'm opting for good air filtration to extend the life of the turbo and engine at the expense of 10HP at WOT....

I've come to belive Mazda spent countless hours designing and testing the air flow through their engines. I'll do a simple test and calculations to confirm...