SoundDeadenerShowdown install on the P5

denim

SSAudio.com
:
2003 Protege5 5-speed / 2005 RX-8 Skinka
Please do take a moment to read this topic and not just look at the pictures, as some of the photos will not make sense if you skip over what I try to say. I am few days behind on getting this pictures posted up, but life and all that goes with it has been in the way. Anyway, a MASSIVE thank you goes out to Don at http://www.Sounddeadenershowdown.com. I had initially hoped to use the SDS product line on the little Mazda with Don's guidance, but he went far and away above the call of duty and took 3, yes 3, very long work days out of his schedule to help me along the way. This was an excellent learning experience for me in terms of the physics of how the acoustics effect the car around me. Don was ever patient with my endless questions and wanted to go the extra mile and spend the extra time to make sure we got it right. Not to mention Don's supply of room temperature orange Gatorade that kept us from dehydrating in the process. I will not get into the demise of the sled (Mercedes Brabus 300ce) at this time.

I have 10+ years of college behind me, and I have always learned faster when using practical applications of the concepts being discussed instead of just extensive reading. In this case, physically having Don there explaining and showing me, step by step, section by section of the car, how and why and where to apply the SDS system was priceless! As you will see in the many following pictures, this is much more of a system, and the full effects were staggering. I say system because the CLD, CCF, Butyl Rope and MLV all have a purpose and work together to vastly change the vibrations in the metal and interior parts, along with sound transmission both into and out of the car. Don has figured out a number of very nifty tricks for installing, one most importantly is the fact that every inch of CCF and MLV can be pulled right out of the car, which you will see below in the pictures. We started in the rear hatch floor area, then worked our way forward on the floor up through the firewall, lastly working on the doors and vertical surfaces.

I have dampened a handful of cars in the past, heck, I nearly covered every inch of the wifey's old Civic with butyl tiles, many sections with multiple layers, but the performance was not like this. Once we were done, I was grinning like a fool, and opening and closing the door in disbelief as to the difference. The level of silence inside the vehicle is really something, almost cocoon like in nature as your ears take a moment to adjust to the change in noise level. In this rare case, I am not the man behind the curtain, I let Don (former large format pro-photographer) photograph the process, so all these photos are credit of the SDS camera.

As for the audio in the car, disregard that at the moment as it is still a 7 year old fully stock Pioneer system as I have had the Mazda only a few weeks and I am spending much of my non-daddy time on the road or away from somewhere appropriate to install audio. The funny thing is, how much better the stock audio system preforms. We were both taken back for a moment once we had finished up, I joked that I might just leave it stock. ;) (Though I did lay down power, speaker wire, and RCA's under the carpet for the impending install which is another topic). This was a great deal of work, more then I had anticipated, but so worth it. I keep telling Don on the phone the additional benefits I keep finding out, the latest being that my 4 year old son goes to sleep much easier now due to greatly reduced road noise levels.

Again, and huge Thank You to Don for all the time, answers, assistance and effort that went into this install.

Details of the install log:

Vehicle:
2003 Mazda Protege5 5-speed

Materials used:
SDS Closed Cell Foam
SDS Mass Loaded Vinyl
SDS Constrained Layer Dampener
HH-66 Vinyl Adhesive
Velcro with dual pressure sensitive adhesive

Tools:
Silver Sharpie
Painters Tape
Large Shears
Scissors
At least a gallon of Mineral Spirits ;)
Denatured Alcohol
Utility Knife
Scalpel
Razor Blades
Panel Poppers
Heat Gun
Scraper
Stop watch

Photos:

1,2: Hatch Floor before start of install:

DSC_1651a.jpg


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3,4: Begin of tear down:

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5,6,7: Removal of some asphalt on hatch floor:

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8: Application of CLD tiles on hatch floor:

DSC_1661a.jpg


9,10,11: Forming, shaping, cutting, planning of MLV on hatch floor:

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DSC_1665a.jpg


DSC_1666a.jpg


12: Formed and removable hatch floor MLV:

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13: CCF underneath MLV layer:

DSC_1668a.jpg


14,15: Me cutting MLV moving forward on the floor:

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16,17,18,19,20,21: Completed hatch floor (this was the single most time consuming part of the install:

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22,23: Start of front floor area (as you can see, much less CLD then expected):

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24: Test fitting spare tire in well:

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25: Continuation of front floor area:

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26: Bad-ass spare tire sub woofer enclosure: ;)

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27: More up front, showing some of the obstacles we were dealing with:

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28: Front passenger door pre-tear down:

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29: Torn down inner door:

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30: Side impact beam before the Extruded Butyl Rope (EBR):

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31: Side impact beam after little pieces of Extruded Butyl Rope pushed down between the beam and the outer door skin (this little amount made a very noticeable change in the door resonance, very smart application):

DSC_1695a.jpg


32: Small strips of plastic to cover the EBR as it stays sticky forever and will pick up dirt and grime:

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33,34,35: Making templates of MLV for the door's:

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36: Little blue Mazda inside the SDS Headquarters install bay:

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37: Cut door skin MLV templates:

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38: Interior of rear doors:

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39,40: Test fitting MLV panel to door skin:

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41: Test fitting MLV panel to door:

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42: Test fitting door skin over MLV:

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43: Cut and trimmed MLV panel on door showing nearly complete coverage:

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44,45: Finishing rear doors into the wee-hours of the night (showing CCF on inside of MLV):

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46: Rear hatch panel turned over to show the cut and trimmed CCF with the Velcro and their respective windows:

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47: Completed rear hatch inner skin with cut and trimmed CCF and MLV:

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Thank you for looking at the install log, I hope it is informative and eye opening to you as it was to me. I learned a great deal about my new little car, surprising as to all the engineering features and touches that you do not expect in a sporty little econo-box. As linked above, you can get these products from http://www.sounddeadenershowdown.com. Lastly, a thank you again to Don!
 
AMAZING! I just read SDS website last week in hopes of doing this to my Mazda3. I find this so daunting since I have never done an audio install. I have tons of questions I'm hoping you can help me answer!

How much material did you need to purchase? I would like to obviously purchase the right amount and not be left with insufficient quantities but also not buy an excessive amount.


8: Application of CLD tiles on hatch floor:

DSC_1661a.jpg



Your hatch pics are amazing, thank you!
On the left quarter panel I guess you can say, why is there just one little peice of CLD there? Are all the surfaces curvy and so there was no real benefit in putting more?



11: Forming, shaping, cutting, planning of MLV on hatch floor:

DSC_1666a.jpg


13: CCF underneath MLV layer:

DSC_1668a.jpg


Is the CCF layer underneath the MLV layer roughly the same size and shape as the MLV layer? How is the MLV and CCF laid down, are they both glued down with HH-66? Is the MLV glued to the CCF?


23: Start of front floor area (as you can see, much less CLD then expected):

DSC_1683a.jpg


How do you decide the spacing between CLD? In the pic, you can see two peices that are facing the front of the car, how do you decide those should be spaced out instead of just putting one long strip there?


30: Side impact beam before the Extruded Butyl Rope (EBR):

DSC_1693a.jpg


31: Side impact beam after little pieces of Extruded Butyl Rope pushed down between the beam and the outer door skin (this little amount made a very noticeable change in the door resonance, very smart application):

DSC_1695a.jpg


32: Small strips of plastic to cover the EBR as it stays sticky forever and will pick up dirt and grime:

DSC_1696a.jpg



Very neat! Where did you get small strips of plastic to cover that?


43: Cut and trimmed MLV panel on door showing nearly complete coverage:

DSC_1709a.jpg


45: Finishing rear doors into the wee-hours of the night (showing CCF on inside of MLV):

DSC_1711a.jpg


Is there CLD on the inside of the metal door skin? Do you have a pic of that?
Where is the CCF, on the door skin side of the MLV or the interior door panel side? How is the MLV mounted, is it glued somewhere?
 
AMAZING! I just read SDS website last week in hopes of doing this to my Mazda3. I find this so daunting since I have never done an audio install. I have tons of questions I'm hoping you can help me answer!

How much material did you need to purchase? I would like to obviously purchase the right amount and not be left with insufficient quantities but also not buy an excessive amount.

I don't remember the exact amount of material we put in as we did it at SDS headquarters and we did not specifically measure out for this install as the material was right there where we were working.

Your hatch pics are amazing, thank you!
On the left quarter panel I guess you can say, why is there just one little peice of CLD there? Are all the surfaces curvy and so there was no real benefit in putting more?
There is more, that photo was just snapped during the process

Is the CCF layer underneath the MLV layer roughly the same size and shape as the MLV layer? How is the MLV and CCF laid down, are they both glued down with HH-66? Is the MLV glued to the CCF?
The CCF layer varies, in some area's it is 1/8" (usually the larger pieces), other areas it is 1/4" CCF. The CCF is glued to the MLV with the HH-66. It helped when there was a little bit of air flow with the HH-66 as you want to wait for it to get a little tacky before you adhere the CCF and MLV to each other.

How do you decide the spacing between CLD? In the pic, you can see two peices that are facing the front of the car, how do you decide those should be spaced out instead of just putting one long strip there?
With Don of SDS right there with me, we discussed each area before putting down CLD tiles. In the past, and still current in many installs, the blind belief that total coverage is the best way, on the SDS website it explains why the approx 25% coverage is the best route. In an industry segment where promotion of more is better, it is refreshing to see someone explain the science behind it and why less in most cases is just as effective. Meaning there is a point of diminishing returns and when a second layer is applied and it is not touching the metal, it is no longer a constrained layer. That is where the MLV steps in and is the physical barrier. And for those guys who are dealing with extreme vibrations from car audio installs (many on my sites > SSAudio & CarAudio-Forum) physical bracing of the panels is needed, not excessive layers of CLD.

Very neat! Where did you get small strips of plastic to cover that?
Those are just cut to shape with scissors, pieces of black vinyl. Think industrial trash bag thickness.

Is there CLD on the inside of the metal door skin? Do you have a pic of that?
Where is the CCF, on the door skin side of the MLV or the interior door panel side? How is the MLV mounted, is it glued somewhere?
Yes there is CLD tiles on the outer metal door skins, just did not get a photo of them during the process. For the floors, the CCF is between the MLV and CLD. On the doors, the CCF is between the inner door skin and the MLV. The MLV is mounted using Velcro with pressure sensitive adhesive. SDS has it available too. As you can see in that one picture, the entire amount of MLV and CCF can be pulled right out of the car with ease as it is not physically attached (outside of a few points with the velcro) to the metal of the car. The CCF acts as a de-coupler between the MLV and CLD so the vibrations that are being dampened does not transfer into the MLV. The output of the stock (but for not much longer) audio system jumped a great deal, as the MLV is a physical barrier that keeps the sound inside the cabin and not vibrate out into the world around the car.

Hope that helps answer most of the questions. If there more just ask, and if I cannot answer them, I will ask Don of SDS directly.
 
Thanks for the reply! I'm wondering if you could clear this up:

The CCF layer varies, in some area's it is 1/8" (usually the larger pieces), other areas it is 1/4" CCF. The CCF is glued to the MLV with the HH-66. It helped when there was a little bit of air flow with the HH-66 as you want to wait for it to get a little tacky before you adhere the CCF and MLV to each other.

So, then how is the CCF+MLV layer held down to the floor? Velcro? If I wanted, I could just glue everything down and make it permanent right?

With Don of SDS right there with me, we discussed each area before putting down CLD tiles. In the past, and still current in many installs, the blind belief that total coverage is the best way, on the SDS website it explains why the approx 25% coverage is the best route. In an industry segment where promotion of more is better, it is refreshing to see someone explain the science behind it and why less in most cases is just as effective. Meaning there is a point of diminishing returns and when a second layer is applied and it is not touching the metal, it is no longer a constrained layer. That is where the MLV steps in and is the physical barrier. And for those guys who are dealing with extreme vibrations from car audio installs (many on my sites > SSAudio & CarAudio-Forum) physical bracing of the panels is needed, not excessive layers of CLD.

I read and understood the 25% rule from the SDS website but I was just wondering how it was decided that the CLD was spaced out instead of a long strip to just cover that panel, which to me would still look like minimal coverage. Is there a rule to it, for example x amount of space between CLD tiles is recommended?

Yes there is CLD tiles on the outer metal door skins, just did not get a photo of them during the process. For the floors, the CCF is between the MLV and CLD. On the doors, the CCF is between the inner door skin and the MLV. The MLV is mounted using Velcro with pressure sensitive adhesive. SDS has it available too. As you can see in that one picture, the entire amount of MLV and CCF can be pulled right out of the car with ease as it is not physically attached (outside of a few points with the velcro) to the metal of the car. The CCF acts as a de-coupler between the MLV and CLD so the vibrations that are being dampened does not transfer into the MLV. The output of the stock (but for not much longer) audio system jumped a great deal, as the MLV is a physical barrier that keeps the sound inside the cabin and not vibrate out into the world around the car.

Hope that helps answer most of the questions. If there more just ask, and if I cannot answer them, I will ask Don of SDS directly.

So does the door look like this?

INNER_DOOR_SKIN | CCFoam | MLVinyl | CLDTiles | OUTER_DOOR_SKIN

Why would one put CCF on that side of the MLV instead of between the MLV and CLD like you would with the floor? Like you say, the CCF should decouple the MLV from the CLD but it looks like the CCF is on the wrong side?
 
Thanks for the reply! I'm wondering if you could clear this up:



So, then how is the CCF+MLV layer held down to the floor? Velcro? If I wanted, I could just glue everything down and make it permanent right?
It is held to the floor by its mass and the carpet and panels on top of it. No need to attach the CCF/MLV unless on vertical surfaces, if applied correctly. There is no need to glue it down. For ease of installation and adjustments, it is better not to and as you can see from the photos and my experience, there is no need to. :)


I read and understood the 25% rule from the SDS website but I was just wondering how it was decided that the CLD was spaced out instead of a long strip to just cover that panel, which to me would still look like minimal coverage. Is there a rule to it, for example x amount of space between CLD tiles is recommended?

Don of SDS can answer that best, but smaller pieces spaced and placed correctly can have the same effectiveness as a large single piece. After you do a few panels, it is easier to understand amount and location.


So does the door look like this?

INNER_DOOR_SKIN | CCFoam | MLVinyl | CLDTiles | OUTER_DOOR_SKIN

Why would one put CCF on that side of the MLV instead of between the MLV and CLD like you would with the floor? Like you say, the CCF should decouple the MLV from the CLD but it looks like the CCF is on the wrong side?

The CCF on the doors is touching the inner door skin as it decouples the MLV from it. The CCF acts as a cushion too that helps put an absorbent layer between the pressure of the attached inner door skin and the MLV. Keep in mind, our door panels were not meant to have this material put inside the doors so some of the fitments are snug. This is the process that Don of SDS suggested from his testing. I believe we put a piece or two of CCF on the other side of MLV, but we don't have a photo of that.
 
I just emailed Don, and he corrected me:

CLD Tiles, outer skin. CLD, MLV, CCF inner skin. CCF faces the trim panel in the doors.
 
Perfect, thanks for the great write up!

No problem, I just hope it helped people and can get a good look at the process. As said above, the difference is awesome. The two problems I have with the car when I bought it was the engine noise and the power. So for me one down and one to go.
 
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