Some love it.....Some hate it

[Nismothecat]

I don't think anyone is saying we're less judgemental. It's just remarkable how quick they jump down someones throat. I've seen nothing but fair play between NASIOC and us regarding STI's and MS3's, infact the respect is exchanged evenly and often.

For the record, I contributed positively to that thread since I am still a member. But those guys did the same thing to another fellow member who converted from a GTO to a Shelby GT500. Give me a break!

what they should be complaining about is how 325hp Camaro SS's murder them at the track.

 

[Donas64]

To each his own. Me, I'd swap my MS3 for a G8 GXP in a nanosecond if that sled was about a foot shorter and 500 lbs. lighter.

I'd trade it in regarless.

 

[MS3077]

Isn't the G8 an automatic??

 

[Super Unique]

The "all motor" crowd is quite entertaining sometimes. If you use any form of forced induction you're automatically "cheating" and not worthy LOL...

At the end of the day, everything else being equal, isn't all a matter of who won the race?

 

[Donas64]

Isn't the G8 an automatic??

It is except in GXP trim. Doesn't matter to me. After The P5 is retired, my next "family hauler" will be a white G8 GT. I'm already saving up for it

Still, the MS3 is a quality piece and is untouchable in it's price range. I've got much respect for it.

 

[SwampAss]

The "all motor" crowd is quite entertaining sometimes. If you use any form of forced induction you're automatically "cheating" and not worthy LOL...

At the end of the day, everything else being equal, isn't all a matter of who won the race?

Same people say nitrous is cheating.

Cheating = ramming someone off the road.

 

[Silver Ecstasy]

I have zero respect for the G8, and it has nothing to do with anything other than I lost respect for GM's cost-cutting efforts with that car.

 

[happy and angry]

actually power comes from a mixture of fuel and air, not fuel

you can dump a shitload of fuel into your motor without much air and you will NOT get as much hp as if you dumped a shitload (discussing volume more than pressure, though pressure is a factor as well) of air at a good a/f ratio of around 12-14:1

displacement is a factor, but air is a more crucial aspect before displacement

i.e. rotorys that kick out 700+ hp from 1.3 liters of displacement (yes I know its a different motor, but the same concept of compressing air/gas is there)....from running larger turbos with a good tune

You just repeated my point for me, thanks. Remember when I said:

Power comes from burning fuel. Burning fuel requires air.

You can fit a finite amount of oxygen in a cylinder. This is the limiting factor in combustion - oxygen. Greater displacements can make greater power by virtue of being able to burn a greater amount of the o2/fuel mixture in the same amount of time a smaller motor can.

 

[08ms3bm]

In my 2.0 I always get "well if I had a turbo on my LS1 I would smoke your rice burner".

No s*** . . . Who would have thought a 350 cubic inch motor on boost would produce more power than 122 cubic inches on boost?

 

[MS3077]

There's a lot more to it than just having more displacement. Obviously as others have mentioned (af / ratio) is extremely important. You also have to consider (power to weight ratio) those bigger motors with large displacements aren't exactly light and they're normally in larger cars. There are many other aspects to consider when judging cars performance capabilities. There are plenty of Turbo 4's out there that will flat out embarrass V8's and vice versa. It’s definitely not a “My car has larger displacement so I win” game.

 

[Super Unique]

The uneducated, square peg in a round hole crowd loves the v8

Actually it's a matter of the correct engine for the right sized chassis and desired purpose for the vehicle being designed. Get it right, and it's an epic ride. Get it wrong, and your just another slug on the road.

 

[neox.286]

You just repeated my point for me, thanks. Remember when I said: You can fit a finite amount of oxygen in a cylinder. This is the limiting factor in combustion - oxygen. Greater displacements can make greater power by virtue of being able to burn a greater amount of the o2/fuel mixture in the same amount of time a smaller motor can.

no, I did not repeat your point

my point was that you can kick out just as much power from a 2.0 liter 4-banger engine as you can from a 6.0 liter v-8 simply by shoving a shitload of air into it

the only requirement would be to have injectors that can keep up, but the displacement does NOT change

you knew what I was saying

 

[2words]

The uneducated, square peg in a round hole crowd loves the v8

Actually it's a matter of the correct engine for the right sized chassis and desired purpose for the vehicle being designed. Get it right, and it's an epic ride. Get it wrong, and your just another slug on the road.

Thanks for the shot. As a former old school corvette owner i like gto's. A car is a car.. If there were only one model of car ever created then my personal opinion or yours wouldnt matter. Vettes have only been around for 50+ years with a v-8. gto has the same 5.7 or 6.0 of the later vettes, which being mr goodwrench you already knew. Just whatever you drive to the track.(eekdance) i hope its not stock.

 

[neox.286]

he was saying that crowd loves the v8, not bashing on all the people who like the v8

basically: if you go out and ask any old average joe what he thinks of a v8 he will be like 'its pretty badass, you cant beat it!'

if I were to ask you the same question, you would not fall into the crowd of average joe (the educated square peg in a round hole crowd as super unique put it) yet you like the v8...that doesnt make you an idiot, and that doesnt put you into that crowd

theres nothing wrong with a v8, but to blantantly disregard every other type of engine out there, including forced induction on low displacement motors, is retarded and the reason why people are complaining about the discussion on the other forum....this isnt a bash on v8s thread, this is a 'dont bash on I4 turbos because they actually can kick a v8s ass just as much as a v8 can kick ours'


both have advantages, both have disadvantages

v8s got raw power
I4 turbos have to be upgraded
vs.
v8s get bad gas mileage
I4 turbos get great gas mileage in comparison

v8s have low end power
I4 turbos have mid-high end power
vs.
v8s weigh more
I4 turbos weigh less

to each their own

 

[oaklandopen]

The uneducated, square peg in a round hole crowd loves the v8

Actually it's a matter of the correct engine for the right sized chassis and desired purpose for the vehicle being designed. Get it right, and it's an epic ride. Get it wrong, and your just another slug on the road.

well back when cars weren't about gas mileage and FM radios, to put the biggest motor you produced into one of your smallest cars was the point behind the "best" and "fastest" car. nowadays they do it again with cars like the new g8, but it's just not the same as the original concepts back in the 60's and 70's.

no, I did not repeat your point

my point was that you can kick out just as much power from a 2.0 liter 4-banger engine as you can from a 6.0 liter v-8 simply by shoving a shitload of air into it

the only requirement would be to have injectors that can keep up, but the displacement does NOT change

you knew what I was saying

and honestly it takes a lot more than that


and i have an engine for you all that destroys turbos, 6.0 liters, all that crap, as long as you want to just talk about creating the most power. ELECTRIC MOTORS....instant torque, no fuel (unless you count the electron), no forced air.

 

[Super Unique]

well back when cars weren't about gas mileage and FM radios, to put the biggest motor you produced into one of your smallest cars was the point behind the "best" and "fastest" car. nowadays they do it again with cars like the new g8, but it's just not the same as the original concepts back in the 60's and 70's.

I wasn't sticking a fork in the eye of the v8 lovers
And there is no question that late 60's era muscle cars were some of the quickest ever using the detroit formula of HUGE discplacement V8 in small economy car.

Now, side by side take a chevy nova II with a 289 v8 vs. same vintage porche 911 and the american car will get it's ass handed to it in real life matchups with curves and braking involved.

Hence the discussion of right sized engine for the chassis. Making a car that is quick, handles well, and stops well is a whole lot more involved that how much displacement can we throw @ this b****....


Corvettes from the muscle car years are incredible, raw brute force machines. Compared to the vette of today, a much more lithe and sweet handling package. Apples and Oranges as some people say. Totally different car. One of the ways they got their was better materials and engineering. Lighter weight huge displacement engine and drivetrain allowing the car to be more balanced.

 

[happy and angry]

no, I did not repeat your point

my point was that you can kick out just as much power from a 2.0 liter 4-banger engine as you can from a 6.0 liter v-8 simply by shoving a shitload of air into it

the only requirement would be to have injectors that can keep up, but the displacement does NOT change

you knew what I was saying

No, you can't. You simply cannot do this. There is a finite limit to how much you can compress O2. Pay careful attention to this. There is a FINITE LIMIT TO HOW MUCH YOU CAN COMPRESS O2. If you take a 2.0L motor running near that limit, and you take a 6.0L motor running near that limit, the 6.0L motor will be burning more fuel and producing more power per combustion cycle as a result of this. This is not a criticism of wound up turbocharged four bangers, and it's not me bowing down at the alter of the V8 (or 10, or 12), it's a physical and chemical reality.

 

[happy and angry]

There's a lot more to it than just having more displacement. Obviously as others have mentioned (af / ratio) is extremely important. You also have to consider (power to weight ratio) those bigger motors with large displacements aren't exactly light and they're normally in larger cars. There are many other aspects to consider when judging cars performance capabilities. There are plenty of Turbo 4's out there that will flat out embarrass V8's and vice versa. Its definitely not a My car has larger displacement so I win game.

I'm not saying it is. From a "power output" perspective, however, a larger displacement motor simply has greater potential. There is NO replacement for having a larger volume combustion chamber. Pushed to the limit of engine technology, a larger displacement motor is going to produce more power than a lower displacement motor because you can simply burn more fuel. That's it, that's all. You can't get around that fact.

 

[Wagonbacker9]

Exactly. You'll see people talk down to other's for car choices on ANY forum.

The SRT4 guys get crapped on here. Read the SRT4 forum and the MS3 gets the ol hot carl.

It comes down to people associating themselves with the car they drive. I don't. I'm swampass first, MS3 owner second. (dark)

how did I get brought into this?!

 

[stephani3]

I love the GTO.. Lots say there isn't a replacement for displacement of a v-8.. " yes there is my friend, its called TURBO!"

LOL

I love the GTO... its one of the only American cars I would buy (CTS-V is the other )