Solenoid question

zhy

Member
:
I aint even mad!
hi, so ive had this faulty canister vent solenoid valve for few months, its reduced by mpg by atleast 7 or 8, and i drive ~100km
daily, i tried sourcing from local junkyards but none have any 2002 p5, so I called the dealer, gave me a 250$ price for a new valve, and he told me the valve was specific to the model and the year... but i smell that is bulls***

is there any other models I can find this solenoid off? thanks

2lcldtk.png
 

pcb

The Diagram Dude
:
2002 MP5
I had that exact part replaced on my 02 P5. Napa charged me $225.95 for the part, plus labor ($108.00 including $10 for fasteners and disposal fee,.. there was no new fasteners and the old part is worth money, there's copper in it). They called it Canister Drain Cut Valve (CDCV) DPart# FS8L-18-741.
I phoned my local Dealer about a year later (one year ago now) to see how much it was and was quoted $127.00 for that part. (Napa charged my $100 to pick up the part.)
Check the manual for CDCV and see if we're talking about the same part. Mine was up underneath the car just past the rear bumper in the middle a little towards the drivers side.
If it's the same part I'd call the stealership back (or another one) with that part number to make sure he looked up the right part.
I do all my own work on my car now with the help from this site. Napa quoted me almost $2000 for a timing belt job. I did it myself for $300 with the help of Rock Auto and this web site.
 
Last edited:

Fresco

Contributor
I wonder if I might need the same thing, how did you come to the conclusion that it was faulty?
 

pcb

The Diagram Dude
:
2002 MP5
I wonder if I might need the same thing, how did you come to the conclusion that it was faulty?

My mil went off. Code P0455 E.V.A.P. gross leak detected E.V.A.P. vent valve solenoid.
At the time I was taking my car in for everything, till I realized how bad I was getting ripped off. After smartening up and doing my own work I realized it's a 10 minute job.
What is leading you to think it's your CDCV?
 

pcb

The Diagram Dude
:
2002 MP5
The first time I took my car in, they took the solenoid off and lubed it up and got it going again. That lasted about 6 months so I went back to get it replaced. If I were you I'd take it off and play with it to see if you can get it going. You can test it's operation relatively easily. It appears you have the service manual,.. doesn't look too hard.
 

Megazuel

Member
:
03 Mazda Protege5
Are you sure the canister vent valve is causing your mpg drop? If your CCV is bad, that is essentially allowing fresh air into the canister all the time. While a bad CCV would most certainly cause an EVAP leak or system performance code, it should not in any way affect your MPG unless the purge valve under the hood was also stuck open. Initially it would cause the pcm to command the mixture to go lean while the canister vapors are purged into the engine (the O2 sensor will "see" the hydrocarbon rich vapors, think its rich and force the fuel system lean to compensate), but would then cause the mixture to go rich because of the abundance of air being sucked through the open ccv and purge valve and straight into the motor. Again, unless the purge valve is also open, a defective CCV itself should not cause mpg issues. Any way to find out what your fuel trim numbers look like? Is it actually running lean, casuing the mixture to go rich? This could be caused by multitude of things. Easiest way to rule out the purge solenoid as being an issue is to pinch off the line coming from the canister to the purge valve and see if your fuel trim numbers change.

As for the part, I found Standard listing a replacement valve p/n CVS65 with a list of 227.74, no other aftermarket listing.
 

Fresco

Contributor
My mil went off. Code P0455 E.V.A.P. gross leak detected E.V.A.P. vent valve solenoid.
At the time I was taking my car in for everything, till I realized how bad I was getting ripped off. After smartening up and doing my own work I realized it's a 10 minute job.
What is leading you to think it's your CDCV?

Well im not leading to it, just trying to solve my own bad mpgs seeing how im not the only one lately, but with no codes I doubt it would be the cause
 

pcb

The Diagram Dude
:
2002 MP5
I'm sure you've already read it but my MPG dropped suddenly from 38 MPG to 31 MPG. I realized that it happened right after I took out the air filter to look at it. It looked pretty clean except for some big bits so I banged it on the ground a few times to knock the dirt out. It was right after that, that my MPG dropped. I had the FRAM filter that was all fuzzy on the input side (not like the regular paper kinds). I figure that when I banged it a bunch of times, I got the fuzz all matted up restricting the air flow. After I replaced it, my mileage went right back to normal. (although I also cleaned the MAF)

I also recommend the Seafoam treatment. That stuff is awesome. 1/3 of the can goes in the gas (best if the tank is close to empty). 1/3 goes in the oil (don't leave it in too long, maybe 50 to 100 miles or so) 1/3 goes in the vacuum system (we use our brake booster vac line).

There is a bunch of threads about Seafoam. They explain it with more detail.
 

zhy

Member
:
I aint even mad!
I wonder if I might need the same thing, how did you come to the conclusion that it was faulty?

ive had my fuel system smoke tested, and they determined that it was this valve that was stuck open, leaking the fuel fumes out and not recirculating to the intake
and yes, i have had this P0455 (large evap leak) code for months, stealership confirmed me this was the problem (sry, forgot to mention)

****
I also use Seafoam 2 times a year, but im running rich for some reason.... my MSP exhaust has carbon deposits.... Would running too rich cause this valve to be faulty?
im pretty sure the spark plugs are causing my car to run rich

on my sides, there are 4 parts I could explain my car runs rich as hell

15'' winter tires instead of 16" standard
bad plugs running rich
shitload of weight in my hatch
faulty CDC valve
 
Last edited:

pcb

The Diagram Dude
:
2002 MP5
I'm just guessing out loud here but perhaps the car is thinking it is cold and is running rich all the time.
You should get an Ultra-Gauge. It will tell you what your O2 sensors are doing as well as your MAF and fuel trim and coolant temp.
Well worth the $108.78 all in shipped to Canada.
I love the blinking lights,... way more fun than watching the road.

http://www.ultra-gauge.com/ultragauge/index.htm
 

Megazuel

Member
:
03 Mazda Protege5
ive had my fuel system smoke tested, and they determined that it was this valve that was stuck open, leaking the fuel fumes out and not recirculating to the intake
and yes, i have had this P0455 (large evap leak) code for months, stealership confirmed me this was the problem (sry, forgot to mention)

****
I also use Seafoam 2 times a year, but im running rich for some reason.... my MSP exhaust has carbon deposits.... Would running too rich cause this valve to be faulty?

This valve (the canister vent valve) will NEVER cause your vehicle to run rich, nor will running rich hurt this valve. Only the canister purge valve (under the hood) will cause mixture issues, and then only if it is stuck open all the time. The evap system on a P5 uses engine vacuum to draw HC's stored in the canister into the intake via the purge valve. The evap system in normally sealed on both ends (cause the EPA wants all those dangerous Hydrocarbons to stay in the car to be reburned rather than destroy the ozone, which is mostly BS). Only time the vent valve should open is in conjunction with the purge valve when the PCM decides its time to purge the system. It sucks fresh air through the CCV valve to clean out the canister. The PCM watches the Upstream O2 the whole time its doing this expecting to see a decrease in air and the subsequent increase when the vapors are cleared.

PCB's guess is very good, you may have a temperature issue. The number one goal of these PCM's is to reduce emissions, not make you happy. A cold engine is a dirty engine, as far as what comes out the tailpipe is concerned. The computer wants that car in "closed loop" (operating temperature) as fast as possible, and it will fatten the mixture, increase the idle, etc. to accomplish that. Normally if it takes too long you'll get the P0128 - Insufficient temp for closed loop code. I'm guessing the temp seems to be normal, otherwise you would have noted it, but how long does it take to get there from a cold start?
 

zhy

Member
:
I aint even mad!
thanks for the helpful info megazuel,
my car takes ~5minutes of slow driving to get to the operating temp.
i have another purge valve I will install if changing the vent valve doesnt fix it
 

pcb

The Diagram Dude
:
2002 MP5
Initially it would cause the pcm to command the mixture to go lean while the canister vapors are purged into the engine (the O2 sensor will "see" the hydrocarbon rich vapors, think its rich and force the fuel system lean to compensate), but would then cause the mixture to go rich because of the abundance of air being sucked through the open ccv and purge valve and straight into the motor.

I was wondering if he could be loosing gas due to evaporation. Apparently in the 70's, up to 25% of a tank of gas was lost due to the lack of a pressurized gas tank system,.. it was the single most important factor affecting water pollution in the oceans.
 

pcb

The Diagram Dude
:
2002 MP5
I think that might work for the purge solenoid valve but the CDCV valve is different. Our CDCV might be specific to the P5. Even the four door protege has a different part.

It's on page:01-16-7 of the service manual ours is 2 pages later.

I just phoned my local dealer and gave him the part #FS8L-18-741 and it came up as the CDCV and is the correct part and # (I don't think it's different in the US). This time I was quoted $252.87, the guy must have looked up the wrong part the first time I called them. He said it's a very specific part for our cars only. I wonder if there still might be a solenoid from another car that would work though. It has a very simple operation of only open or closed and if the hoses fit on the fittings of a different cheaper part from another car I'm sure you could wire it up to your car. If you find something at a junker, make sure you include a good length of wire and the entire connector to splice into your wiring. I kinda think the regular CDCV would work from any protege and there is a lot more of them out there. The only other issue might be the mounting bolts but you could easily zip tie it or something like that. One other issue might be whether the solenoid is held open or held closed when the power is applied. Make sure they operate the same way. I'd start with taking off the one you have and see if you can do something like the EGR cleaning we all have to do, but it's way easier and you don't have to reinstall it. It's basically not doing anything anyway, maybe just plug the two hoses to keep crap out while you try to clean it and compare it to other valves off other cars.

I just checked the service manual and it is the exact same testing procedure for all protege's but they show the CDCV off of the regular protege, the only difference is the mounting bracket. I'm almost positive this will work for you even the wiring and connector you just have to find a way to mount it.

I just looked under my car and it looks super easy to work on,.. no need to lift the car either. You may very well be able to install the regular protege' valve and not even mount it. The hoses are pretty hefty and could probably support it without extra help. Or you could use a piece of coat hanger and wrap it around one or both of the bolts in the frame then wrap it around the solenoid with zip ties or electrical tape.

Good luck with your Jerry-Rigged solenoid it might save you $252 plus tax and labor. (minus the cost at the wrecker of course)
 
Last edited:

zhy

Member
:
I aint even mad!
I think that might work for the purge solenoid valve but the CDCV valve is different. Our CDCV might be specific to the P5. Even the four door protege has a different part.

It's on page:01-16-7 of the service manual ours is 2 pages later.

I just phoned my local dealer and gave him the part #FS8L-18-741 and it came up as the CDCV and is the correct part and # (I don't think it's different in the US). This time I was quoted $252.87, the guy must have looked up the wrong part the first time I called them. He said it's a very specific part for our cars only. I wonder if there still might be a solenoid from another car that would work though. It has a very simple operation of only open or closed and if the hoses fit on the fittings of a different cheaper part from another car I'm sure you could wire it up to your car. If you find something at a junker, make sure you include a good length of wire and the entire connector to splice into your wiring. I kinda think the regular CDCV would work from any protege and there is a lot more of them out there. The only other issue might be the mounting bolts but you could easily zip tie it or something like that. One other issue might be whether the solenoid is held open or held closed when the power is applied. Make sure they operate the same way. I'd start with taking off the one you have and see if you can do something like the EGR cleaning we all have to do, but it's way easier and you don't have to reinstall it. It's basically not doing anything anyway, maybe just plug the two hoses to keep crap out while you try to clean it and compare it to other valves off other cars.

I just checked the service manual and it is the exact same testing procedure for all protege's but they show the CDCV off of the regular protege, the only difference is the mounting bracket. I'm almost positive this will work for you even the wiring and connector you just have to find a way to mount it.

I just looked under my car and it looks super easy to work on,.. no need to lift the car either. You may very well be able to install the regular protege' valve and not even mount it. The hoses are pretty hefty and could probably support it without extra help. Or you could use a piece of coat hanger and wrap it around one or both of the bolts in the frame then wrap it around the solenoid with zip ties or electrical tape.

Good luck with your Jerry-Rigged solenoid it might save you $252 plus tax and labor. (minus the cost at the wrecker of course)

thats pretty damn helpful, thanks!
yeah, im gonna give it a go in a week or two, im stuck in exam week and have no time at all, yet its starting to be hotter over here in Qc, 0C, snow melts, feels good!
and yeah, i called twice at Mazda and they gave me 2 different prices, 255$ and 202$, which tells me theres a specific part for the specific vehicule/year
im definitively gonna be able to hack into it and resolder connectors, and mounting shouldnt be a problem either! ill keep you updated if i find a junkyard who has a p5 (or not!)
 

pcb

The Diagram Dude
:
2002 MP5
I don't think you even have to do any soldering,... the electrical connector should just plug right in. The only other thing I noticed was the orientation of the hoses and connections on the solenoid take a look at the two different designs, you'll see what I mean. If you were to take the two hoses as well as the solenoid, I'm pretty sure you could "cut & paste" something together,... I don't think the bend too much without kinking.
Don't forget to just get under there and remove it,.... I'm almost sure you can get yours going,... my mechanics did,... you don't need to lift the car and it take no more than ten minutes,... two 10 mm bolts, two hoses pliers for clamps, and the electrical connector. Then you can take it inside and play with it in the comfort of your dorm or whatever. Don't forget the liquid wrench and probably some fine sand paper and probably a little Phillips screwdriver (followed by the almighty sledge hammer if all else fails).
It's funny how when the temperature hits the freezing point,.. it's a "hot" trend. Only in Canada EH ??
 
:
2002 protege 5
As a side note for this old thread... I have had this o455 code and just today took my cdcv valve out and repaired it. I didnt take pics but will describe briefly what I did to "repair" mine. Mine was stuck open and when I removed it could blow thru the hoses. I determined that I had nothing to lose as it was already "nfg". so carefully unbent the 4 tabs and removed the valve portion (carefull with the o ring that seals it to the steel plate). Then i found that by tapping the steel cap (at the other end) the plunger would pop out (but stick when pushed in again). so unbent the centre 2 tabs and removed the plate too (watch for the spring). I found that there was a roughness in the plastic bore that the plunger moved in so i too a similar sized drill bit and (TURNING IT BY HAND ONLY) used it to rasp off the roughness. Once it moves freely blow out and your done. Carefully reassemble and make sure the plate is smooth that the o ring seals on ( I painted my plate and put a dab of silicone grease on the o ring). Once the the plate is on again test it with 12 volt it should jump in with power and bounce back out when disconected. if so good. Put the valve portion back the way it was bend the tabs, reinstall and your done. As I say I painted mine up as it was very rusty and didnt want it getting worse. Also the 2 tabs bend out and the 4 tabs bend in toward each other. Considering that this part is worth $200. (WAY too much) It only took me about 1 hour to repair it. Oh my mileage dropped too when the cel was on.

UPDATE :

So 2 days later the check engine light went out (first time on its own in 4 the months Ive had my p5).

UPDATE:

SO 6 months later and Ive had to redo this a few times. It seems that the distortion in the plastic around the steel plunger keeps returning and this may not be a permanent repair. BUT it may get you past an emisions check..so...Good luck.

Update: July 2015
So I think Ive done this twice more. I seem to be getting 6 to 8 months per go. I will probably need a different one soon as the tabs are starting to get weak as well as the rustiness of the steel. As they say "give er".
 
Last edited: