Off Topic So slow I'm ashamed...

ColoradoDriver said:
I wasn't going to recommend water cooling. :p

Cool, well if it works it works. I have 6 fans in my case right now, but in the new config will be a total of 9. That said they will all be low RPM. 3 will be intakes and the other 6 will be on the two 360mm radiators. Intakes I'll probably run a bit higher RPM than the rad fans. Case doesn't take a rear fan, otherwise that would be 10.

Still deciding how I want the intake/exhaust flow.
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I love my liquid cooled PC. I bought it in 2017, and it's been issue-free until today, minus a failed PSU bearing (nothing to do with the liquid cooling). While I would be monumentally butthurt if it took a dump today, but I can't say I haven't gotten my money's worth in near silent, efficient cooling for half a decade.
 
Unobtanium said:
I love my liquid cooled PC. I bought it in 2017, and it's been issue-free until today, minus a failed PSU bearing (nothing to do with the liquid cooling). While I would be monumentally butthurt if it took a dump today, but I can't say I haven't gotten my money's worth in near silent, efficient cooling for half a decade.
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Yeah been custom loop watercooling since 2011. There's no way I can go back to noisy fans. I first got into it because I didn't have AC in 2011 where I was living and air cooling didn't cut it in July. Now I am just ruined on the silence. My wife's computer is air cooling and the sucker is loud.
 
ColoradoDriver said:
Yeah been custom loop watercooling since 2011. There's no way I can go back to noisy fans. I first got into it because I didn't have AC in 2011 where I was living and air cooling didn't cut it in July. Now I am just ruined on the silence. My wife's computer is air cooling and the sucker is loud.
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I have an indoor pet. Also, I leave my PC on. Fans and cpus with heat sync units will clog. I had to do surgery on my amd phenom 2 after 7 years. Now it works fine, no overheating, but the sync was fully clogged.
 
I have an indoor pet. I promise you he out-sheds your pet. My fan doesn't get clogged. Proof is right there in my photo. (And I know your house isn't a mess cuz we've seen it).
Probably all that pollen and dust out in the sticks. :D
 
My case is pretty open in terms of not having dust filters in a lot of spots, and stays pretty clean for the most part. No pets though.
 
A couple parts I need still out of stock, but might just have to add later. Planning on placing my last order for the rest of what I need after the 15th.

Otherwise was able to snag a Ryzen 9 5900X today for $375 after coupon code/credit card rewards. I have an unopened 5600X I should be able to sell for $200-$220 so should make it pretty good upgrade cost wise.
 
When we playing ANYTHING together guys?!?! :D
Start a clan/club/guild: M247 :D

One drawback to buying Bronze PSU... no resale value. Man I can't give this thing away. Anyone want 700W Bronze PSU? Just pay shipping at this point.

I did some prelim shopping for processor. Was SHOCKED to see the price difference between Microcenter and BestBuy.
One processor, exactly the same, was $150 cheaper at MC. Another was $80 cheaper.
Exact same.
Can't make up my mind between an 11Gen and use current memory v a 12G and getting DDR5.
 
7eregrine said:
When we playing ANYTHING together guys?!?! :D
Start a clan/club/guild: M247 :D

One drawback to buying Bronze PSU... no resale value. Man I can't give this thing away. Anyone want 700W Bronze PSU? Just pay shipping at this point.

I did some prelim shopping for processor. Was SHOCKED to see the price difference between Microcenter and BestBuy.
One processor, exactly the same, was $150 cheaper at MC. Another was $80 cheaper.
Exact same.
Can't make up my mind between an 11Gen and use current memory v a 12G and getting DDR5.
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I have a Micro Center here in Denver, and have used them for a lot.

They've always used CPUs as a loss leader to get you in the door and get you to buy the rest of your parts there. They will also do deals with motherboard bundles. I got my i7-4790k there back in 2014. I want to say I spent ~$250 while it was going for closer to $350 retail everywhere else.

That said, with Zen 3 chips anyway, unless you are buying directly off of AMD.com, their market retail value has dropped pretty much everywhere and MC is pretty much in-line with that.

As for Intel side of the house, I haven't really been following pricing there. 12th gen is performing fantastically, but like you said DDR5 is kinda expensive, hard to find, and meh right now. New memory standards always are when they first come out. Personally I'd just wait for 13th gen which should be a 5-10% improvement over 12th gen, same socket, and perhaps the DDR5 world will be better by that point.

11th gen was fine in some respects, but at its upper end SKUs and especially the i9, it actually regressed in core count and performance vs 10th gen.

As for Bronze PSU's, yeah not surprised. Gold rated PSUs have been pretty standard for years now.
 
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ColoradoDriver said:
As for Bronze PSU's, yeah not surprised. Gold rated PSUs have been pretty standard for years now.
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Not sure what you mean by "Standard"? I always buy Bronze. Let's be honest, saving a few pennies on my electric bill isn't all that important to me. Quieter? Don't care. Not like I can hear my PC over my games. A tiny bit less heat generated and wasted?
Not at all worth it to me.

Now... resale? I HATE throwing electronics away so that ONE reason might be enough to go Gold. Next time. Maybe.

I can't even imagine going back to AMD, I'm such an Intel guy. Used to be AMD many years ago. So what are the high end AMD's right now? I'll at least look.
I don't want to wait for next gen. 11 is still a big step up for me coming from 6.
 
Honestly just didn't think Bronze was all that prevalent anymore. I pretty reasonably bought Gold PSU's in 2011. Typically higher rated PSU's are just that...better built.

Intel 12th gen is better for gaming at the moment, it also is newer. Zen 3 for AMD is going to be replaced by Zen 4 come fall.
 
My computer runs all the time for work so water cooling is a must. Not because of the noise or the cooling power, it's just that air cooling where I am requires me to clean the fans.
I run a Ryzen 5 5600X, 32 gigabytes of RAM and a 3070Ti.
About PSUs, Bronze/Gold/Platinum etc. doesn't mean much -- it's just a matter of efficiency. Unfortunately doesn't say much about the longevity/reliability. It's like looking at fuel consumption to see how reliable an engine is. It's true that it's hard to resell a Bronze - you're probably better off building a computer around that PSU and selling the entire computer.

PS: I love competition -- thanks to AMD, we have great processors at rather affordable price points. I'd go Intel if I built a PC right now, but I am excited about Zen 4.
 
By the way NOT loving my new Mech Keyboard the G915. Thinking of selling it. It's fine for gaming but I don't like typing on it. Typo a LOT more. And the symbols don't illuminate!? Very odd design decision.
mrplt said:
It's true that it's hard to resell a Bronze - you're probably better off building a computer around that PSU and selling the entire computer.
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LOL! Yea, no. I'll just offer it up for cheap on a FB marketplace or something like that.

mrplt said:
PS: I love competition -- thanks to AMD, we have great processors at rather affordable price points. I'd go Intel if I built a PC right now, but I am excited about Zen 4.
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Yea, I love it too. I did go through an AMD phase, but it's been awhile.
 
I mean last time I was with AMD was back when it was the Athlon 64 era lol. So I've been on Intel since probably 2008 with my E8500, upgraded to an i5-650, then a i7-960, and current i7-4790k. I was happy to try AMD again for my next rig. 5900X should be here tomorrow.

Regarding PSUs - Oh I agree from an efficiency standpoint, there's not a huge deal of difference. But depending on the brand, higher rated PSUs can be of better build quality. Not a universal statement for sure as you usually have to find out who the PSU OEM is for each unit, but generally I'd expect a Gold to be better built then a Bronze. I use and reuse PSU's for a decade or more so I like that.

I inspected my AX850 from 2011 but has not been used for several years sitting in my parts closet. It looks great and don't see any concerns like bulging caps mainly. So its probably going into the new rig.
 
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ColoradoDriver said:
But depending on the brand, higher rated PSUs can be of better build quality. Not a universal statement for sure as you usually have to find out who the PSU OEM is for each unit
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Meh. Hard disagree. ;) Unless you are buying some truly no name brand PSU I can almost guarantee there's zero different between a Bronze or Gold PSU from nearly every brand name manufacturer like EVGA, Corsair, Thermaltake. I would even go so far as to say that's BS marketing... if any of these companies actually advertised that Gold were better quality. They don't.
 
7eregrine said:
Meh. Hard disagree. ;) Unless you are buying some truly no name brand PSU I can almost guarantee there's zero different between a Bronze or Gold PSU from nearly every brand name manufacturer like EVGA, Corsair, Thermaltake. I would even go so far as to say that's BS marketing... if any of these companies actually advertised that Gold were better quality. They don't.
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Perhaps you're right. Corsair, EVGA, and Thermaltake don't make the PSU's. Seasonic, Superflower, and others do and Corsair and EVGA slap on their logo.
 
TIL. Of course, I should have figured that. It's like a lot of stuff.
 
7eregrine said:
Meh. Hard disagree. ;) Unless you are buying some truly no name brand PSU I can almost guarantee there's zero different between a Bronze or Gold PSU from nearly every brand name manufacturer like EVGA, Corsair, Thermaltake. I would even go so far as to say that's BS marketing... if any of these companies actually advertised that Gold were better quality. They don't.
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ColoradoDriver said:
Regarding PSUs - Oh I agree from an efficiency standpoint, there's not a huge deal of difference. But depending on the brand, higher rated PSUs can be of better build quality. Not a universal statement for sure as you usually have to find out who the PSU OEM is for each unit, but generally I'd expect a Gold to be better built then a Bronze. I use and reuse PSU's for a decade or more so I like that.
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In theory, higher quality capacitors should be more efficient due to lower leak; but that's not always the case. It's like saying an engine with low fuel consumption is more durable than one with higher fuel consumption.
I wouldn't say all PSUs of a brand are the same. It's also true that most PSUs are actually manufactured by a handful of companies in China, but their quality is directly parallel to the cost.

Then again, it also fully depends on how you use your PSU. I built a computer for my dad 10 years ago. It has a 1100W 80+ Gold PSU on it... because it cost pretty much the same as a 700W one. It still works like a charm, mainly because the computer never drew more than 500-600 watts.
Had I run it at full load all the time, it wouldn't have lasted.
Last year I sold my desktop. It had a Ryzen 5800X and a Radeon VII and a 1300W Antec 80+Platinum PSU. I'm sure its new owner can run that PSU for another 15 years because unless you have a mining rig, it's quite hard to put that PSU under load.
My current setup has a 3070Ti and an 80+Gold 650W PSU. I can easily put that PSU under a full-ish load if I want to. I'll probably need to replace it in 6-7 years.

While the 80+ certification isn't designed to be a "quality tier", it certainly became one as it doesn't make sense for a PSU manufacturer to sell a 1000W PSU with 80+ White. And PSU manufacturers use it for differentiating between models. I would go ahead and say an EVGA 80+ Platinum PSU is better than a Bronze. But it's not true that a no-name 80+ Gold PSU is necessarily better than an EVGA 80+ Bronze.
If you're more interested, I think GamersNexus does a pretty good job testing PSUs.
 
mrplt said:
In theory, higher quality capacitors should be more efficient due to lower leak; but that's not always the case. It's like saying an engine with low fuel consumption is more durable than one with higher fuel consumption.
I wouldn't say all PSUs of a brand are the same. It's also true that most PSUs are actually manufactured by a handful of companies in China, but their quality is directly parallel to the cost.

Then again, it also fully depends on how you use your PSU. I built a computer for my dad 10 years ago. It has a 1100W 80+ Gold PSU on it... because it cost pretty much the same as a 700W one. It still works like a charm, mainly because the computer never drew more than 500-600 watts.
Had I run it at full load all the time, it wouldn't have lasted.
Last year I sold my desktop. It had a Ryzen 5800X and a Radeon VII and a 1300W Antec 80+Platinum PSU. I'm sure its new owner can run that PSU for another 15 years because unless you have a mining rig, it's quite hard to put that PSU under load.
My current setup has a 3070Ti and an 80+Gold 650W PSU. I can easily put that PSU under a full-ish load if I want to. I'll probably need to replace it in 6-7 years.

While the 80+ certification isn't designed to be a "quality tier", it certainly became one as it doesn't make sense for a PSU manufacturer to sell a 1000W PSU with 80+ White. And PSU manufacturers use it for differentiating between models. I would go ahead and say an EVGA 80+ Platinum PSU is better than a Bronze. But it's not true that a no-name 80+ Gold PSU is necessarily better than an EVGA 80+ Bronze.
If you're more interested, I think GamersNexus does a pretty good job testing PSUs.
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I agree with everything you said. Just goes down to what the OEM for a given model is. For any given price point you can have quality or garbage.
 
Eh, I will disagree. I don't believe running a PSU at a much lower load extends its longevity or running it near its max load shortens its life. If my system needs a 500 I will buy a 600 or a 650. Not a 1,000. My video card demands a 750. It is the most power hungry device in the PC. So I bought... a 750. You WANT a PSU to run at 80% or better.
 
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7eregrine said:
Eh, I will disagree. I don't believe running a PSU at a much lower load extends its longevity or running it near its max load shortens its life. If my system needs a 500 I will buy a 600 or a 650. Not a 1,000. My video card demands a 750. It is the most power hungry device in the PC. So I bought... a 750. You WANT a PSU to run at 80% or better.
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I don't know about the longevity of life aspect here, but PSU's definitely hit their peak efficiency between 40-60% load (depending on unit) and then drop off as it approaches 100%. So I do know lots of people way overbuy on wattage for this reason. I haven't typically been one of them, opting usually to run anything between 650 - 850 watts depending on the system in most cases. I am using a 750W now.

Honestly all boils down to what you pay for the unit and what you pay for your power to figure out if the math works or not. As much as I don't think "future proofing" is a real thing in the PC space, one could argue PSUs are an exception since you can use and reuse them for 10+ years if a quality unit. Nvidia's upcoming 40-series are rumored to be even more power hungry than the 30-series. Like 450W TDP cards, maybe even higher. Almost feels like a repeat of Fermi (GTX 480 back in the day) if those rumors pan out. Brute forcing performance but at the expense of power draw.
 
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