Snow water/methanol injection

[duren03msp]

Ok everybody i have a 2003 msp with a few mods and i've been looking into snow performance's water/methanol stage 1 kit. Sounds like it would be a nice addition to mine. Cooler/denser charge air and higher octane on demand is always a good thing on forced induction engines. Just looking to see if there was anybody else who has run water/methanol kits on their msp's without getting a tune afterwards or having an ems. If anyone has any advice as to if they are actually worth the fuss or their experiences would be greatly appreciated.

 

[ap123]

You probably will not get any gain without tuning.

people get gains with it is b/c it allows for more aggressive timing and higher boost levels without the risk of preignition.

 

[duren03msp]

i agree to an extent. but with computer controlled vehicles ( non- carb ) the intake air temp sensor should communicate and automatically adjust timing to optimize performance since the iats will be reading the cooler charge air vs hot air since you mount the water/ methanol injector before the iats. in theory i would assume this is correct. correct me if i am wrong.

 

[ap123]

Air temperature correction is minimal for the most part and only active at extreamly high temps, meth injection doesn't really cool the intake temps, its once its inside the cylinder that it keeps temperatures down. If you wanna lower intake temps fmic would be the way to go and have co2 spray if you really wanna be a boss!

The main ignition correction the ecu makes is done through the knock sensor and that can be take advance of by filling up with the highesr premium fuel which you should already do.

 

[duren03msp]

yes i only use premium 91+. then i guess my only route would be to get a tune which isn't a big deal since i know the guys at rs motors by my house. i would just have to compromise a little performance to get a mild tune since it is my summer daily driver.

 

[hornsfan10609]

Tuning may be a bigger deal if you are on the stock ECU. Most shops can't just tune a protege you have to have a piggyback or standalone EMS.

 

[CHIQLES]

I thought the meth kit was at the throttle? if it was before the ait wouldnt the water jack the turbo?

 

[duren03msp]

you can install the injector pretty much anywhere you want but I would try for somewhere around 24 inches before t/b. I could also relocate the iats after the injector if needed. but yes it will screw up the leading edges of the compressor wheel if you put it before the turbo which I will not be doing. plus in theory having the iats about 6 inches from the t/b would be ideal since then the computer can make the most accurate judgement of the temp right before it hits the cylinders and giving optimal mixture and adjust timing accordingly to its limit.


hornsfan10609- yes I will be looking into another source of engine management. too bad I don't have the money for a haltech right now.

 

[CHIQLES]

alright sounds like you know what your doing. I was just concerned initialy since the ait in the stock location is way in front of the turbo.

 

[duren03msp]

ya I figure that would be actually better to have the iats in the relocated location for optimal readings.

 

[hornsfan10609]

Only issue with the stock IAT is since it is a barb type fitting it will pop out under boost if it is installed in the cold pipe. Swapping to a screw in type sensor is relatively easy though.

 

[duren03msp]

very true. im sure I could come up with a universal threaded style, tap threads into cold pipe and make up an extension harness so I could tuck the wires away nicely. now are piggybacks only programmable once? or can you program them multiple times for different tunes/ mods?

 

[protege3690]

ssafc is tuner friendly, so u can program it and tune it as you go along with your mods. you can start off with the " stock supermap" and modify it from there however much u need.

 

[duren03msp]

does split second sell a plug and play wiring adapter? reason for asking is I dread having to tear into wiring especially for the brain

 

[protege3690]

does split second sell a plug and play wiring adapter? reason for asking is I dread having to tear into wiring especially for the brain

no. only other option is buying an AEM extension harness.

 

[hornsfan10609]

You only have to tap into 5-6 wires on the ECU, not really a big deal. I was afraid myself but somehow have had no problems with the AFC at all in the 2 years since I installed it.

 

[duren03msp]

wouldn't an air fuel and timing controller be better since I plan to build the motor at some point and continue to add to the mods list? does split second make a aftc?

 

[protege3690]

wouldn't an air fuel and timing controller be better since I plan to build the motor at some point and continue to add to the mods list? does split second make a aftc?

yes they do. its more expensive, theyre close to $600, and for another $250-300 you can probably get a haltech full standalone.

 

[duren03msp]

yes but haltech doesn't make a plug and play for the msp. I am not exactly comfortable with wiring all that and don't want to pay for rs motors to wire it up then do a full tune after. also doesn't AEM just make their patch harness for direct fit from the factory wiring and their ems's? I wouldn't think the extension would fit directly to a haltech or split second. does it?

 

[duren03msp]

i could also upload the base maps for the split second without getting a shop to tune it correct? or do they have to tune it anyways